Auto Desk System Record Cleaner

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Just read the review in Stereophile. I did a search here but could not find any info. Does anyone have one ? Likes/Dislikes. It sounds real good on paper and obviously the easiest cleaner to use.
http://www.soundstage.com/vinyl/201003.htm

i have one. it's like Mikey says; cleans great, easy to use.

i also have a Loricraft PRC4 Dlx which allows for use of a 3 step chemical process. i use the Audio Desk about 80-90% of the time.

this morning i cleaned 12 Lps (both sides) while i listened, in about 90 minutes. i have it in the hallway outside my room, and i leave the door adjar. when the cycle ends there is a short buzz and i go out and remove it. then i put another Lp on and go back to listening.

you do need to 'touch up' some Lps with a few drops of water. but that is very quick. the fact it blow drys instead of vaccuming means no static build up to attract dirt.

i've had mine for over 2 years. i did have a motor fail on mine when it was just out of warranty; they gave me a no cost exchange to a refurbed one.

the perfect companion to your X-2's.;)
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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Northern NY
i have one. it's like Mikey says; cleans great, easy to use.

i also have a Loricraft PRC4 Dlx which allows for use of a 3 step chemical process. i use the Audio Desk about 80-90% of the time.

this morning i cleaned 12 Lps (both sides) while i listened, in about 90 minutes. i have it in the hallway outside my room, and i leave the door adjar. when the cycle ends there is a short buzz and i go out and remove it. then i put another Lp on and go back to listening.

you do need to 'touch up' some Lps with a few drops of water. but that is very quick. the fact it blow drys instead of vaccuming means no static build up to attract dirt.

i've had mine for over 2 years. i did have a motor fail on mine when it was just out of warranty; they gave me a no cost exchange to a refurbed one.

the perfect companion to your X-2's.;)

Good to know Mike. Thanks.
 

bblue

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2011
360
3
388
San Diego, CA
Question for those with the AudioDesk

I got one of these a few days ago. Overall, it seems to do a good job, though mine has a problem engaging the rear pair of white rotating cleaning arms. They size the record and then move forward to position just like the front pair, but when the front pair starts turning, the rear ones don't about 20% of the time. I use a long shank screwdriver to bump the dark colored gear that drives the rear arm pair and they start right up. Is this familiar to anyone?

I've cleaned about 60 records so far, probably 95% of which have been cleaned previously at some point in their life. That cleaning might have been done with one of Nitty Gritty, VPI, Mint, Last Record Cleaner solution, or Disc Doctor. Older records might have also had Last Preservative applied (which is said to become one with the vinyl) or for a short time, Sound Guard or Premier.

What I am noticing is that after about 25 records, the cleaning solution especially around the brushes starts getting foamy and is rather significant by 35 records, to the point of actually bubbling almost up to the label. It's not clear to me whether this is normal behavior for the solution, or it's from a mix of stuff (previous cleaners) being cleaned off the record. The first time this happened, I emptied the batch of fluid and started with new water and solution. But at around 20 records I could see indications of a slow increase in foaming, and by 25 or so it was obvious. So it's the same pattern twice in a row.

Has anyone else seen this? Is it normal, or am I doomed to getting 50 washes per solution bottle until I get through the previously washed records?

The unit sure is nice, though. No more being captive doing only one thing around the old VPI 16.5 for hours at a time. Unfortunately, still have to use the VPI for 10" records and 45's (and 78's I assume).

--Bill
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
I got one of these a few days ago. Overall, it seems to do a good job, though mine has a problem engaging the rear pair of white rotating cleaning arms. They size the record and then move forward to position just like the front pair, but when the front pair starts turning, the rear ones don't about 20% of the time. I use a long shank screwdriver to bump the dark colored gear that drives the rear arm pair and they start right up. Is this familiar to anyone?

I've cleaned about 60 records so far, probably 95% of which have been cleaned previously at some point in their life. That cleaning might have been done with one of Nitty Gritty, VPI, Mint, Last Record Cleaner solution, or Disc Doctor. Older records might have also had Last Preservative applied (which is said to become one with the vinyl) or for a short time, Sound Guard or Premier.

What I am noticing is that after about 25 records, the cleaning solution especially around the brushes starts getting foamy and is rather significant by 35 records, to the point of actually bubbling almost up to the label. It's not clear to me whether this is normal behavior for the solution, or it's from a mix of stuff (previous cleaners) being cleaned off the record. The first time this happened, I emptied the batch of fluid and started with new water and solution. But at around 20 records I could see indications of a slow increase in foaming, and by 25 or so it was obvious. So it's the same pattern twice in a row.

Has anyone else seen this? Is it normal, or am I doomed to getting 50 washes per solution bottle until I get through the previously washed records?

The unit sure is nice, though. No more being captive doing only one thing around the old VPI 16.5 for hours at a time. Unfortunately, still have to use the VPI for 10" records and 45's (and 78's I assume).

--Bill

My guess. I think that's a by product of the sonication process. When you hit the right frequency, the solution will begin to foam. So doing it repeatedly probably raises the water temp enough to make the solution foam more easily.

Do the instructions give you any hint of how many LPs you can clean at a time? With other RCMs, there is a limit to the number of records cleaned in a row, esp. with the smaller motors, before they will overheat.
 

bblue

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2011
360
3
388
San Diego, CA
My guess. I think that's a by product of the sonication process. When you hit the right frequency, the solution will begin to foam. So doing it repeatedly probably raises the water temp enough to make the solution foam more easily.
Maybe so. But after being idle for many hours (and cool) if there was foaming at last use, it's exactly the same on a new cold start up.

Do the instructions give you any hint of how many LPs you can clean at a time? With other RCMs, there is a limit to the number of records cleaned in a row, esp. with the smaller motors, before they will overheat.
The manual states that if the records are dirty it should handle 100 no problem. If they are all new 200 would be a good number. None of these records are visually dirty or even dusty.

There's no mention of records in a row, but I have been watching that. The unit is continuously quite cool. After quite a few discs the solution is barely over room temperature. It doesn't seem to be temperature related.

The only thing the manual states about foaming is not to use any solution but theirs since it is a low-foam formula and also an surfactant to aid the ultrasonic cleaning process.

Weird, huh?

--Bill
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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Northern NY
I will hopefully be getting mine in the next two weeks. I suspect that overfoaming is th result of doing too many disks in a row or that the concentration of cleaner is too high. In the reviews it said one bottle of concentrate for 1 gallon of water. I have some concentrate I bough before hand. It specifies 1 bottle per 5 litre's of water which is significantly more than a gallon.
 

bblue

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2011
360
3
388
San Diego, CA
I will hopefully be getting mine in the next two weeks. I suspect that overfoaming is th result of doing too many disks in a row or that the concentration of cleaner is too high. In the reviews it said one bottle of concentrate for 1 gallon of water. I have some concentrate I bough before hand. It specifies 1 bottle per 5 litre's of water which is significantly more than a gallon.
One gallon is 3.78 liters IIRC, and 4.5 liters of water to one bottle of solution is what they currently specify. However, in the documentation they say that one bottle solution is fine with one gallon of water. Close enough, they say.

Besides, if that was the issue, you'd think that it would be foaming from the beginning, not 15-20 records in.

--Bill
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
412
1,210
Northern NY
I think concentration of cleaning solution can make a diference (I'm speculating here since my machine has not arrived). On the concentrate bottle is says 5 litres of water. I am going to go with that and observe if I have any foaming issues. As far as the rear rollers not working correctly, I would ask for an exhange or a fix if applicable. That would be unacceptable to me. I'm hoping my machine doesn't exhibit that random issue.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
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San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
I was told not to use any other cleaning liquid in the mix, as that would cause foaming, so I'm guessing the foaming is due to the residues of other cleaning liquids on your albums...
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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i have had my Audio Desk unit for 3 years.

as far as solution foaming; the trick is to use a minimum of the cleaning solution. i use approx 1/4th of the small bottle of cleaning solution per fresh water batch. i learned this over time.

another trick is when you empty the resevoir, also rinse it with distilled water. i'll empty the resevoir, rinse the filter sponge and sometimes the brushes with distilled water, and then refill with distilled water without soap. then run one cycle and dump it to really get all the residual soap film out. another thing is to make sure when you empty the resevoir to tip the unit back and forth to get all the suds out.

it does seem that occasionally there will be something that will cause excess foaming in spite of all my efforts. i agree the most logical cause is residual soap film from previous cleanings. i have tried it without any cleaning agent and that is an alternative....although i think that the cleaning fluid does clean some things better than without.

do be careful not to overfill. i've not had a problem with it; but i've heard users damaging the electronics with water spilling into them. you also need a level surface as the water essentially spills over into the filter sponge and needs to be level.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,472
11,368
4,410
I got one of these a few days ago. Overall, it seems to do a good job, though mine has a problem engaging the rear pair of white rotating cleaning arms. They size the record and then move forward to position just like the front pair, but when the front pair starts turning, the rear ones don't about 20% of the time. I use a long shank screwdriver to bump the dark colored gear that drives the rear arm pair and they start right up. is this familiar to anyone?

--Bill

Bill,

those brushes are mechanical and connected to one another. if the front two are not always turning with the rear there are two possible issues; (1) the brushes are not fully depressed on the shaft, or (2) the gears at the bottom are not aligned.

don't take my word as gospel on this issue; i'm no mechanical expert. it is just my recollection of how i think it works.

if you remove one of the brushes you can see how it seats on the shaft and clicks in. make sure it is pushed all the way down. as far as gear alignment on the bottom i've not messed with those. it might be a matter of pushing into the right position or not; i don't know.
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2012
1,396
51
970
Seattle area
I also just got one of these a week ago and love it. The only problem I have had with it is sometimes the record does not spin without a little help at first. If I put the record in there just right it seems to do it by itself though. You have to wedge it in the rollers a little.

I have noticed that I get some foam from time to time as well. It does not seem to hurt anything though. I did use a full bottle of the supplied fluid. Maybe I will use less next time as Mike suggests.

Mike, thanks for the tips on cleaning it out.

Sean
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,472
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I also just got one of these a week ago and love it. The only problem I have had with it is sometimes the record does not spin without a little help at first. If I put the record in there just right it seems to do it by itself though. You have to wedge it in the rollers a little.

I have noticed that I get some foam from time to time as well. It does not seem to hurt anything though. I did use a full bottle of the supplied fluid. Maybe I will use less next time as Mike suggests.

Mike, thanks for the tips on cleaning it out.

Sean

thanks Sean.

to get the Lp to 'seat' properly you need to press it gently down and forward and rotate it counter clockwise just a bit. after a few times it becomes natural. don't force it, but don't be afraid of pushing a little. if you don't get it to 'seat' properly the automatic sensors that measure the thickness of the Lp don't work properly and the record won't consistently spin. you hear those sensors come in and out prior to the start of spinning.
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2012
1,396
51
970
Seattle area
thanks Sean.

to get the Lp to 'seat' properly you need to press it gently down and forward and rotate it counter clockwise just a bit. after a few times it becomes natural. don't force it, but don't be afraid of pushing a little. if you don't get it to 'seat' properly the automatic sensors that measure the thickness of the Lp don't work properly and the record won't consistently spin. you hear those sensors come in and out prior to the start of spinning.

Thanks, I'll give that a shot.:)
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Sounds like this RCM has a few quirks.
 

bblue

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2011
360
3
388
San Diego, CA
Bill,

those brushes are mechanical and connected to one another. if the front two are not always turning with the rear there are two possible issues; (1) the brushes are not fully depressed on the shaft, or (2) the gears at the bottom are not aligned.

don't take my word as gospel on this issue; i'm no mechanical expert. it is just my recollection of how i think it works.

if you remove one of the brushes you can see how it seats on the shaft and clicks in. make sure it is pushed all the way down. as far as gear alignment on the bottom i've not messed with those. it might be a matter of pushing into the right position or not; i don't know.
Thanks Mike. Actually, the brushes are driven in pairs, front and back. Each pair has a dedicated gear drive (dark color) which engages to the rightmost brush. On mine, the front and rear sets go through all the motions of sizing and then positioning ready to spin, but when the front set starts turning, the rear set often does not. If I bump the rear dark gear with a long screwdriver, it starts right up and continues the cycle correctly. All the brushes are seated and moving freely.

I'm in a quandry about just taking it apart and fixing it myself, or exchanging the whole unit.

I just dumped batch #2's liquid, cleaned it out, brushes, filter and all, refilled and added cleaning fluid. Comparing my log of the first two batches, the first batch made it to 43 cycles before the foaming became excessive, and batch #2 made it to 44 cycles. At that point in #44, foaming was coming out of the top opening and being blown around when the dry cycle started. Both batches started out completely foam free, until around the 15th cycle you could start seeing bubbles, and by cycle 25 it was pretty frothy, and continued escalating from there.

It's hard for me to imagine that formerly RCM cleaned records would have that much recoverable solution from the discs surface, but maybe so. I'll try less cleaning solution next time. I don't think I'd want to use just water and no solution, because proper cleaning would not be possible without the surfactant in that solution.

--Bill
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
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Dumb Question #1: when you guys say 'water' or 'distilled water' are you talking about the stuff you can buy at the grocery store, or do you need to use fancy lab grade water?
 

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