Technical question; lobing or timing and phase coherent issues?

treitz3

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I have been pondering this question for some time now and I thought I'd just go ahead and ask it here. When listening to a speaker system, how can you tell if the image "smearing" [if you will] is a lobing issue within the speaker itself or whether it is a timing and phase issue?

How can you distinguish between the two?
 

fas42

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As probably no. 1 troublemaker on this forum I will lobe in my response to this lobbing, sorry, lobing issue. In my experience lobing in the technical sense is very benign. I once deliberately tried creating a "difficult" situation by driving 2 midrange units decently spaced vertically with full range signals, and had no trouble hearing the comb filter effects when deliberately moving my head up and down vertically while listening. That is, the volume rose and fell for a certain frequency at regular distances. But, strangely enough, I typically don't listen to recordings while bobbing my head up and down significant distances continually ...

But it didn't "smear". I presume you mean by this a lack of focus or clarity in the sound, which in my experience is always due to a distorted audio signal being fed to the driver voice coil, or equivalent, for whatever reasons. And when I say distortion, I mean non-linear distortion, that is, nothing to do with timing and phase in the sense you probably mean it.

Frank
 

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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Paging Gary.........
 
I have been pondering this question for some time now and I thought I'd just go ahead and ask it here. When listening to a speaker system, how can you tell if the image "smearing" [if you will] is a lobing issue within the speaker itself or whether it is a timing and phase issue?

How can you distinguish between the two?

I am not sure one can distinguish by listening alone.
In each case the cause is something similar as well, two or more sources of sound radiating the same signal but from an acoustical distance which prevents them from adding coherently.

By that I mean we often think of how signals add through resistors where the result is the simple vector sum of the two inputs. It is for that reason, if you invert one of two equal signals and then add them, they cancel each other out 1+ added to 1- equals 0 (related to the Cosine of the phase difference)..

Loudspeakers drivers can do this as well, two closely coupled subwoofers for example are usually close enough to add coherently into one new source, this condition (coherent addition into one new signal) only happens when the source to source spacing is ¼ wavelength or less and in that condition, each driver also “feels” the radiation pressure from the other source and this (mutual coupling) raises the overall efficiency too.

Once the source spacing reaches ½ wavelength or more (as is usually the case), the sources radiate independently and produce what is called an interference pattern which is recognizable as a pattern of lobes and nulls which reflect the regions where locally the signals add or cancel out.
With an interference pattern where sources radiate independently, if you reversed one source you do not cancel out the acoustic signal you only re-arrange the pattern of lobes and nulls.

The criteria for coherent addition is rarely met in conventional loudspeakers though and so an examination of the polar plots at high resolution normally shows a pattern of lobes and nulls with crossover design usually focused on keeping the main lobe pointed in the desired direction at xover.
As well as being out of alignment in X and Y (Horizontal and Vertical) two sources can be out of alignment in time or Z just as easily because crossovers also act on the time response by progressively delaying the mid and low signals as the frequency falls.

When all the drivers are close enough to add coherently, then one finds there is no critical or minimum distance needed for the sound to “knit together”, no hint there are several frequency ranges or multiple drivers and if one can eliminate the time error, then one has what appears to be a single broadband driver with no crossover.

My interest in this had as much to do with fidelity as driving a horn over a wide bandwidth as if it had one driver and avoiding the lobes and nulls caused by multiple sources because they also radiate a lot of sound in the wrong directions, directivity being critical the worse / larger the room s become.
Best,
Tom Danley
Danley Sound Labs
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Paging Gary.........

Sorry, Jack. I've been exceedingly busy lately. Tom did an excellent job of explaining it above.

I would add that imaging has also to do with relative positioning between the two speakers which also results in an interference pattern, as well as wall, floor and ceiling reflections interfering. A smeared image can result from the floor/ceiling reflections - which is why line-source speakers can have better image specificity and focus.
 

JackD201

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Many thanks to you and Tom Gary. :)
 

treitz3

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Dec 25, 2011
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Tom, thank you very much for taking the time to provide a detailed explanation of something I had somewhat figured as such to begin with. In the years to come, I will be looking more into this, as it has much to do with my own personal audio journey. Enjoy the music.

Tom
 

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