Audiophile Fuses

Gunnar · Mar 22, 2022

New fuses target? Always curious to see if small and not expensive things can enhance the sound as the 50 euro HiFi Tuning copper fuse did. Are there better fuses out there. Should be surprised if not. At they same time the HiFi Tuning really made a positive improvement. I searched on the internet but could not find any seller of the AM fuses in EU (not UK).

But prior trying other fuses I intend to install a few more outlets.. I need 8 but have just 6 through a Muscline Power strip. The last 2 are just using normal outlets. The intention is to add a couple outlets and then try the new Chord PowerHaus M6. A friend of me tried it and kept it. He was very positive about it. So why not give it a try.

Gunnar

Gunnar · Mar 22, 2022

AMR / iFi audio said:
It seems that you've been playing the fuse game for a while. Did you set eyes on a new target now?

Let me continue…..
After the PowerHaus M6 I will try some power cords. I have 3 Naim Power Lines and I think it’s possible to improve …. The same friend had also the possibility to evaluate the power cords from a company called OePhi, a Danish company. He was really impressed with price / quality. They were not on the level of his Chord Music. I think the Chord Music power cord is close to 4 times more expensive than the top OePhi. Myself could not afford a “few” Music power cords.

AMR / iFi audio · Mar 22, 2022

You are right. £5000 Chord Music power cord vs. € 1500 OePhi Transcendence Power Cable. That is a significant difference. Did you or your friend compare the Transcendence and Immanence? I am curious what was the difference between the OePhi's Transcendence and the Chord Music power cords.

Gunnar · Mar 23, 2022

AMR / iFi audio said:
You are right. £3300 Chord Music power cord vs. € 1500 OePhi Transcendence Power Cable. That is a significant difference. Did you or your friend compare the Transcendence and Immanence? I am curious what was the difference between the OePhi's Transcendence and the Chord Music power cords.

Chord Music Power Chord, 1 meter is 6000 Euro and for Sarum T 2350 Euro. OePhi, 1 meter Trans 1000 Euro and for Immance 1500 Euro. Myself I have never heard an OePhi so below is second hand info.

My friend had the possibility to test both Trans and Immance.

He has a complete Naim 500 setup, Melco N10 and one S100 and all cables are Chord Music except from one Sarum T power cord.

He said without going into details that Immance sounded better than Trans. More details and bigger soundstage. Never the less. Trans is not a bad power cord.

He borrowed also two Immance. One with silver contact and one with coppar. He preferred the coppar one. Less artificial and more homogeny with more musicality.

Immance copper compared to Chord Sarum T. Similar sound. No "really" difference. Between them he would choose Immance due to its price.

Chord Music against Immance. Not a fair comparison as Music is 4 times more expensive. Music was clearly better.

Myself. After Chord PowerHaus M6 and the vacation I will give Immance a try and see how they perform against my Naim SuperLumina.

I hope that answer your question. Immance should be compared to Sarum T and not to Music. Make sense.

Gunnar

AMR / iFi audio · Mar 23, 2022

Gunnar said:
Chord Music Power Chord, 1 meter is 6000 Euro and for Sarum T 2350 Euro. OePhi, 1 meter Trans 1000 Euro and for Immance 1500 Euro. Myself I have never heard an OePhi so below is second hand info.

My friend had the possibility to test both Trans and Immance.

He has a complete Naim 500 setup, Melco N10 and one S100 and all cables are Chord Music except from one Sarum T power cord.

He said without going into details that Immance sounded better than Trans. More details and bigger soundstage. Never the less. Trans is not a bad power cord.

He borrowed also two Immance. One with silver contact and one with coppar. He preferred the coppar one. Less artificial and more homogeny with more musicality.

Immance copper compared to Chord Sarum T. Similar sound. No "really" difference. Between them he would choose Immance due to its price.

Chord Music against Immance. Not a fair comparison as Music is 4 times more expensive. Music was clearly better.

Myself. After Chord PowerHaus M6 and the vacation I will give Immance a try and see how they perform against my Naim SuperLumina.

I hope that answer your question. Immance should be compared to Sarum T and not to Music. Make sense.

Gunnar

I did not compare Transcendence to Immanence. In general, however, even if one product is 4 times more expensive than the other, I think it is possible to conduct such a comparison. I would usually focus on comparing value to price ratios.

Sarum T, oh yeah, I heard about it. Do you know anything more about Tylon?

Gunnar · Mar 27, 2022

AMR / iFi audio said:
I did not compare Transcendence to Immanence. In general, however, even if one product is 4 times more expensive than the other, I think it is possible to conduct such a comparison. I would usually focus on comparing value to price ratios.

Sarum T, oh yeah, I heard about it. Do you know anything more about Tylon?

Now we are getting far away from fuses …..

Compare different price levels? Assume to evaluate if the price difference is justified. I see that more for professionals and not for end users as myself. My friend for example who was not interested in the Trans as he heard it as below the Immance. Why should he then take time to compare the Trans against something 6 times more expensive? He would never go back. For a professional i believe it make sense.

Always possible to discuss. “Is it worth 6 times?” Myself when I have founds available I don’t look at the price. My evaluation is just sound. What I like to do (when possible) is to listen to the new stuff for a while and then go back. If the “old” is not up to the “new” I keep the “new”. But I would never make a home demo of something I can not afford. Too risky. Would be difficult to sleep if….. Does not mean that I am not sensitive for prices. That’s why I intend to compare OePhi Immance against Sarum T and maybe against something else. When my friend said “I would today choose an Immance over a Sarum T” it was not for sound. He had difficult to hear the difference between them, You see? It was for price.

I no nothing about Taylon. Not more than I can read. (Financial background). No Idea of how OePhi insulate. In a few weeks I will have two Furutech outlets installed. After the vacation Chords new power strip PowerHaus M6 for évaluation. Thereafter Power cords. Step by step ….

Back to the topic. Fuses are done for me! The HiFi Tuning copper for 50 Euro each really made a positive difference. A cheap upgrade.

Gunnar

highstream · Mar 27, 2022

Generally, diminishing returns as price goes up, at least beyond a certain price point point. Thus, cost not proportional. Each person has to decide own level of desired refinement and affordability, as well as how well own taste in sound tonally is met. Higher priced equipment generally has more labor time involved in research, design and production, and higher priced materials and smaller volume of sales to recoup what’s gone into it. Among other variables are costs of using dealer network, shipping, currency differences, size of organization, marketing and market being aimed at, costs of servicing, and developer ego.

So, is something costing 6x more 6x better? Generally no, but yes if the customer values the improvement.

AMR / iFi audio · Mar 28, 2022

I guess this is where the blind testing comes in. From a certain price, as @highstream rightly pointed out, the improvement becomes less significant. If you say that your decision is not determined by the price to such a great extent, then that's good for your SQ. People often fall for the trap the more expensive, the better SQ, which is often true, but it is not always the case.

All in all, that's good that HiFi Tuning copper worked for you.

Gunnar · Mar 30, 2022

For sure. After a certain investments in HighEnd the “payoff“ is going down. But still there. If we can afford it why not. And everything does not need to be bought new. It’s correct to say that higher priced has higher costs in R&D and production setups per sold unit through lower volumes. Continue with “personal payoffs” Audi A6 compared to a S6 and BMW 5 série to the “M” and watches. At least we can listen to music.

Gunnar · Mar 30, 2022

AMR / iFi audio said:
I guess this is where the blind testing comes in. From a certain price, as @highstream rightly pointed out, the improvement becomes less significant. If you say that your decision is not determined by the price to such a great extent, then that's good for your SQ. People often fall for the trap the more expensive, the better SQ, which is often true, but it is not always the case.

All in all, that's good that HiFi Tuning copper worked for you.

Blind Testing is difficult for me and I guess for quite a few of us. In my case. I am the only one in the family who changes cables etC. I use my wife when needed. A 100% sure blind tester. She knows nothing about HighEnd more than that is expensive. Personally, as said earlier, whenever possible I like to switch back after some time.

AMR / iFi audio · Mar 31, 2022

Gunnar said:
For sure. After a certain investments in HighEnd the “payoff“ is going down. But still there. If we can afford it why not. And everything does not need to be bought new. It’s correct to say that higher priced has higher costs in R&D and production setups per sold unit through lower volumes. Continue with “personal payoffs” Audi A6 compared to a S6 and BMW 5 série to the “M” and watches. At least we can listen to music.

You're responsible for new equipment and then the 'real' blind-tester comes in. I agree, it may be difficult to audition a new product without taking into account its price, reviews etc. When it comes to blind testing, your method sounds like a good solution. It is, however, more useful if a blind tester has trained ears and knows what to look for.

Gunnar · Apr 1, 2022

AMR / iFi audio said:
You're responsible for new equipment and then the 'real' blind-tester comes in. I agree, it may be difficult to audition a new product without taking into account its price, reviews etc. When it comes to blind testing, your method sounds like a good solution. It is, however, more useful if a blind tester has trained ears and knows what to look for.

True what you say about blind testers. First I let my wife listen a few times then if needed I ask her a specific question. Her ears are also better than mines.

highstream · Apr 1, 2022

I remain unconvinced of the need for blind testing by someone (end user) with good if not experienced ears, self awareness and integrity (honest with themselves). Not only are the difficult logistics of systematic blind testing effectively impossible for most of us, but also the methodology, most importantly setting a test time period, makes it not fit easily with audio (consider how many times one has to listen across multiple passages of varying times or even for hours to find out what one needs to know). To me, if a user needs blind testing, other than literally closing their eyes to help focus, they’re in over their heads. Sure, comparing notes with someone else, like a partner or friend, who’s familiar with the sound or listening generally for their thoughts can be helpful, but only in so far as their ears and tastes and descriptive language.are known and thus can be interpreted relative to one’s own.

At the same time, over a few years it’s become easier to buy blind, or at least to narrow the possibilities and make better initial choices, with good success based on becoming familiar with reviewers’ tastes, other listener comments, and asking questions of them and developers and occasionally dealers. Cuts down on returns and wasted money.

Cellcbern · Apr 1, 2022

FYI:

Synergistic Research's NEW Purple Fuses: Buy 2 get 1 FREE in April

Orange Fuse Extravaganza: Save 30% Using Discount Code ORANGE30.

www.thecableco.com

321Bach · May 28, 2022

Why you need you need to chase the game? I never bother after buying the SR black for some of my machine. As you know it improved over the stock one. Then it would be enough! When funds allow, you could bypass the blue, orange etc.. and jump directly to the purple!

L3RD · May 28, 2022

Steve Williams said:
Here is the correct link
http://www.ultrasystem.com/usfeaturedprodsFUSE_LIT.html

I read it and I was interested that the fuse they sell was the one with the best measurements.

Also this is only for Slo Blow fuses right.

Hi Steve,

I am responding to you, but this is a general statement which covers things that you didn't address, so don't take it personally.

The only thing that makes sense to me is if the fuse has an internal circuit that filters the AC in some frequency range so that in some components it may cut down distortion that the components power supply isn't designed to handle.

Power supplies are generally made to filter 60Hz. If you have noise on your line from noisy power supplies, phone chargers, computers, TV sets, all use switching power supplies which are notoriously noisy, most component power supplies will not filter it, so it can reside on your DC supply to the components in your unit, which can then through lower frequency harmonics, muddy up your sound.

That's why I believe that some love different power cables, and many, once you get to 12 gage wires, here no differences in their system. Not to mention that some components are less than flat, and may themselves filter out the noise, negating the necessity for prior filtering.

If I remember correctly Spectral gear used to be able to amplify 1 to 100MHz, so I suspect that if Spectral preamps and amps didn't have nearly perfect power supplies they might be very susceptible to such noise.

As for directionality, if the fuse had an internal diode, or if itself acted as a diode, coated wires allegedly act as diodes, that would explain the directionally issue.

Having said all of this, I have never personally heard a difference in power cables, unless wires of sufficient gage were changed for heavier gage cords, and I have never bypassed or replaced fuses with boutique fuses. I am just looking at how electricity CAN or MAY be effected by such things.

One other factor is your speakers. Inefficient speakers, usually due to the crossovers, often don't pass low level details well. I have owned some highly reviewed, even by people I trust, but I was amazed when I went to a full range drivers how much detail my upgrade crossovers were burying.

So, if 2 people with identical systems have different results, there may be multiple reasons for that. One may not be battling noise the other doesn't have, one may not be listening as deeply as the other, they are not detail oriented, or like a friend of mine who loves bright, one may not have a full range of hearing.

I have ordered several lower dollar power cords just to tinker, but regardless of what I do or don't hear, I have been proven wrong about things audio that I will not say that someone is delusional because X did, or didn't do X, Y, or Z.

SeagoatLeo · May 28, 2022

L3RD said:
Hi Steve,

I am responding to you, but this is a general statement which covers things that you didn't address, so don't take it personally.

The only thing that makes sense to me is if the fuse has an internal circuit that filters the AC in some frequency range so that in some components it may cut down distortion that the components power supply isn't designed to handle.

Power supplies are generally made to filter 60Hz. If you have noise on your line from noisy power supplies, phone chargers, computers, TV sets, all use switching power supplies which are notoriously noisy, most component power supplies will not filter it, so it can reside on your DC supply to the components in your unit, which can then through lower frequency harmonics, muddy up your sound.

That's why I believe that some love different power cables, and many, once you get to 12 gage wires, here no differences in their system. Not to mention that some components are less than flat, and may themselves filter out the noise, negating the necessity for prior filtering.

If I remember correctly Spectral gear used to be able to amplify 1 to 100MHz, so I suspect that if Spectral preamps and amps didn't have nearly perfect power supplies they might be very susceptible to such noise.

As for directionality, if the fuse had an internal diode, or if itself acted as a diode, coated wires allegedly act as diodes, that would explain the directionally issue.

Having said all of this, I have never personally heard a difference in power cables, unless wires of sufficient gage were changed for heavier gage cords, and I have never bypassed or replaced fuses with boutique fuses. I am just looking at how electricity CAN or MAY be effected by such things.

One other factor is your speakers. Inefficient speakers, usually due to the crossovers, often don't pass low level details well. I have owned some highly reviewed, even by people I trust, but I was amazed when I went to a full range drivers how much detail my upgrade crossovers were burying.

So, if 2 people with identical systems have different results, there may be multiple reasons for that. One may not be battling noise the other doesn't have, one may not be listening as deeply as the other, they are not detail oriented, or like a friend of mine who loves bright, one may not have a full range of hearing.

I have ordered several lower dollar power cords just to tinker, but regardless of what I do or don't hear, I have been proven wrong about things audio that I will not say that someone is delusional because X did, or didn't do X, Y, or Z.

My friend Jules has a $500,000 audio system (topped by YG Acoustic Sonya 2.3s) and was using Pangea A/C cables. He was an electrical engineer and believed the same as you. I introduced him to a GroverHuffman A/C cable and voila! His system became more relaxed, open, but most importantly, frequency balanced. He used to have a weird sounding system wherein the mid-bass to lower mids sounded very recessed. He replaced all six Pangea and stock computer cables with GroverHuffman cables and his system is so sweet and even sounding. This from a guy who has excellent quality ICs and speaker cabling. He just didn't believe per his profession that power cables made a difference (he has filtered power and an excellent power source). He is a believer now.

You, my friend, have a system that cannot appreciate the vast difference excellent quality cabling makes.

Hilroy48 · May 28, 2022

Like most i went down both rabbit holes. I have Orange fuses in all my gear on both systems. I also have good quality Wireworld Silver Electra 7 power cables with the reference ends on every piece of gear on my main system. I also found a huge improvement in overall sound with the Saturn Audio 103C power conditioner units. i have one on each system. I will save some money and add a silver electra 7 power cable on my basement amp at some point in the future as well. I am done, I have reached my endgame and audio Nirvana.

highstream · May 30, 2022

Hilroy48 said:
Like most i went down both rabbit holes. I have Orange fuses in all my gear on both systems. I also have good quality Wireworld Silver Electra 7 power cables with the reference ends on every piece of gear on my main system. I also found a huge improvement in overall sound with the Saturn Audio 103C power conditioner units. i have one on each system. I will save some money and add a silver electra 7 power cable on my basement amp at some point in the future as well. I am done, I have reached my endgame and audio Nirvana.

Guess you haven't heard that Audio Nirvana has several stages... ;-)

Hilroy48 · May 30, 2022

highstream said:
Guess you haven't heard that Audio Nirvana has several stages... ;-)

Wait what???? NOOOOOOOOO... LOL.

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