Cables for Magnepan

MylesBAstor · Aug 3, 2011

Socrates7 said:
Not at all. And I'll keep an eye out on AudiogoN for sure.

Anything in particular to look for?

Well I'd avoid any cable that has a rising upper octave eg. many silver cables (IMHO). Next, I'd look for cable with good bass foundation and speed. Then something that really gives you good retrieval of space (something the Maggies do unlike almost any speaker) and dimensionality. I can't speak to the sound of the lesser priced cables from these co's but I'd give a listen to MIT/Transparent/Nordost/Cable Research Labs/Kubala-Sosna (not sure on the entry cable prices but if price is a factor, just try to keep lengths to a minimum). In addition, another inexpensive cable worth checking out is Twister Pair Designs. Reviewed them many, many moons ago in Ultimate Audio and it's a good honest performer. Art Almstead also design the cables for Cable Research Labs and Krell's Cast cables.

Socrates7 · Aug 3, 2011

MylesBAstor said:
I'd give a listen to MIT/Transparent/Nordost/Cable Research Labs/Kubala-Sosna

Nordost? Really? I get the space/airiness but deep bass?

jadis · Aug 3, 2011

MylesBAstor said:
Well I'd avoid any cable that has a rising upper octave eg. many silver cables (IMHO).

Agreed. Maggies' ribbons have a tendency to sound bright and even shrill and matching them with silver cables will make matters worse, imo. A good friend of mine gave up on the 3.5s bec he couldn't tame the highs which are just to edgy for him, and he even used all the attenuation resistors.

MylesBAstor · Aug 3, 2011

Socrates7 said:
Nordost? Really? I get the space/airiness but deep bass?

Haven't heard the Nordost in a while but when had it several years ago, never found any problems in the low end with the Maggies or ML Quest. If there's an issue, it might be a slight thinness thru the mids/upper octave; I always attributed that to the silver plating

garylkoh · Aug 3, 2011

jadis said:
Agreed. Maggies' ribbons have a tendency to sound bright and even shrill and matching them with silver cables will make matters worse, imo. A good friend of mine gave up on the 3.5s bec he couldn't tame the highs which are just to edgy for him, and he even used all the attenuation resistors.

Jadis,

you may have hit the nail on the head. I don't know if the new 3.7's have the attenuation resistor, but I found with my 3.6 and 3.5, the quality of that attenuation resistor to be critical to quality high-frequency performance. I ended up using a Vishay wire-wound with Ayrton-Perry windings (not sure of the series). Before my current cables, I used DH Labs Silver Sonic, and I thought that sounded better (clean sparkling highs and no edge) than the other cables I had available.

MylesBAstor · Aug 3, 2011

garylkoh said:
Jadis,

you may have hit the nail on the head. I don't know if the new 3.7's have the attenuation resistor, but I found with my 3.6 and 3.5, the quality of that attenuation resistor to be critical to quality high-frequency performance. I ended up using a Vishay wire-wound with Ayrton-Perry windings (not sure of the series). Before my current cables, I used DH Labs Silver Sonic, and I thought that sounded better (clean sparkling highs and no edge) than the other cables I had available.

Dave Gordon, when at Magnepan, recommended the Vishays too!

jadis · Aug 4, 2011

garylkoh said:
Jadis,

you may have hit the nail on the head. I don't know if the new 3.7's have the attenuation resistor, but I found with my 3.6 and 3.5, the quality of that attenuation resistor to be critical to quality high-frequency performance. I ended up using a Vishay wire-wound with Ayrton-Perry windings (not sure of the series). Before my current cables, I used DH Labs Silver Sonic, and I thought that sounded better (clean sparkling highs and no edge) than the other cables I had available.

Nice tip, Gary.

garylkoh · Aug 4, 2011

jadis said:
Nice tip, Gary.

This is the one:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtbXrIkmrvidOmRiOInv5xY4xKgVPvnzOc=

I think I ended up with 1.2ohms on the 3.6 and 1.0ohm on the 3.5.

Unfortunately, they are not ROHS compliant. So, not sure if you can get them in the Philippines and in Europe.

Gregadd · Aug 4, 2011

microstrip said:
A friend of mine had his Maggies 3.3 with Cardas - unhappily I do not remember the model - and was very pleased with them for many years. George Cardas was known to own Magnelanars - I do not know if he still has them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCFhBmy6XFQ
I do not know how old this video is:

DonH50 · Aug 4, 2011

Part of the issue with the ribbon is that it is a narrow line source and thus does not have as broad a pattern as the larger panels. (Note no line-source'ish or panel design has a very wide horizontal pattern.) A mixed blessing, but a physical effect that does make the tweeter tend to stand out. A trade I'll make to keep my Maggies...

Gary, any idea why the resistors sounded different? I have the usual speculations but am curious as to your thoughts.

Thanks - Don

garylkoh · Aug 4, 2011

DonH50 said:
Gary, any idea why the resistors sounded different? I have the usual speculations but am curious as to your thoughts.

Thanks - Don

I was just a hobbyist when I did all those experiments, and certainly didn't have the tools I have now.... but I'm guessing that it had to do with the inductance of the wire-wound resistors. The Ayrton-Perry windings keep the inductance to a minimum (but I know that you already knew that) and so had a flatter frequency response. What didn't make sense to me at that time was that the inductive resistors made the speakers sound BRIGHTER. It was much later that I realized that the "brightness" we heard was actually in the range of 8kHz to 13kHz, and that the extended clean high frequencies (above 15kHz) made the lower-high frequencies more pleasant (just like how fixing the phase coherence of the bass below 40Hz can make cymbals shimmer more realistically.)

Fred · Aug 4, 2011

I've always preferred a sound that was a bit forward. Still, I had to install the 1 ohm resistor in my new 1.7's and that's with the speakers placed with the tweeters on the outside. I'm thinking of trying a pair of the Nordost Red Dawn cables on them to see how much effect they have. FWIW, Magnepan can supply higher value resistors than the standard 1 ohm versions that come with the 1.7's and 3.7's. Also, let's not forget that in the world of valves, brightness can usually be fixed with a swap of signal tubes, ala RCA Blackplates.

jadis · Aug 4, 2011

Fred said:
Also, let's not forget that in the world of valves, brightness can usually be fixed with a swap of signal tubes, ala RCA Blackplates.

Agreed, Fred. I love the long plate Mullards for this.

MylesBAstor · Aug 4, 2011

garylkoh said:
I was just a hobbyist when I did all those experiments, and certainly didn't have the tools I have now.... but I'm guessing that it had to do with the inductance of the wire-wound resistors. The Ayrton-Perry windings keep the inductance to a minimum (but I know that you already knew that) and so had a flatter frequency response. What didn't make sense to me at that time was that the inductive resistors made the speakers sound BRIGHTER. It was much later that I realized that the "brightness" we heard was actually in the range of 8kHz to 13kHz, and that the extended clean high frequencies (above 15kHz) made the lower-high frequencies more pleasant (just like how fixing the phase coherence of the bass below 40Hz can make cymbals shimmer more realistically.)

Gary - that was the explanation I got from Dave Gordon. He suggested finding a low inductance resistor and the vishay was the lowest I could find. And finding the Vishay 15 or more years ago was not an easy task

Summa · Feb 2, 2012

I've had Magnepans since 2005 and I have to say, I've never really noticed any difference from one cable to the next...UNTIL recently, that is lol.

The cables that I will SWEAR made an improvement in my Maggie 3.6s are the speltz anticables. The bass is where most of the improvement was noticed, as it was clearly deeper and punchier. The good news is that these cables aren't all that expensive. I typically go with BlueJeansCables all around, but I'm keeping the Speltz where they are. Im even thinking about trying their ICs on the 2-channel signal path just to see if I notice any improvement. But at least with the spekaers, I feel like I upgraded my sound for not a lot of money.

MylesBAstor · Feb 2, 2012

Summa said:
I've had Magnepans since 2005 and I have to say, I've never really noticed any difference from one cable to the next...UNTIL recently, that is lol.

The cables that I will SWEAR made an improvement in my Maggie 3.6s are the speltz anticables. The bass is where most of the improvement was noticed, as it was clearly deeper and punchier. The good news is that these cables aren't all that expensive. I typically go with BlueJeansCables all around, but I'm keeping the Speltz where they are. Im even thinking about trying their ICs on the 2-channel signal path just to see if I notice any improvement. But at least with the spekaers, I feel like I upgraded my sound for not a lot of money.

Curious what cables you've tried? I've always heard a difference between cables. Have you tried for instance MIT or Transparent or OCOS in your system?

Summa · Feb 2, 2012

I've only tried higher end cables once, and to be honest with you I can't even recall their name. I borrowed them from a dealer and played around with them for a week or so. I typically don't have the budget to spend a lot on them, so I tend to live in the sub-$500 area. Recently I've had the Mapleshade double golden helix, the regular golden helix, better cables, blujeans cables, some lower end audioquest, and just some basic cheapo stuff from home depot. It was pretty obvious that the Speltz stuff mated really well with my gear, cause the difference was clearly detectable.

MylesBAstor · Feb 3, 2012

Summa said:
I've only tried higher end cables once, and to be honest with you I can't even recall their name. I borrowed them from a dealer and played around with them for a week or so. I typically don't have the budget to spend a lot on them, so I tend to live in the sub-$500 area. Recently I've had the Mapleshade double golden helix, the regular golden helix, better cables, blujeans cables, some lower end audioquest, and just some basic cheapo stuff from home depot. It was pretty obvious that the Speltz stuff mated really well with my gear, cause the difference was clearly detectable.

OCOs doesn't cost an arm and a leg and is worth checking out. Think the folks at Dynaudio are now importing OCOS.

Summa · Feb 4, 2012

Very interesting....just read a 6 moons review on them. Thanks!

Mosin · Mar 11, 2012

I have a pair of 2.7 Maggies, and they are three-way speakers, but like the 1.7 and 3.7 they are configured for a single amp. I was able to acquire a pair of XLO prototype cables made with Tesla treated 6N copper a few years ago, and they have a soundstage to die for. The problem is that XLO never produced the cables commercially because the cost was so prohibitive that it would cause the retail price to go far beyond their target market. Tesla treated wire is pretty much unobtanium, if I understand correctly.

Why would you care?

I mentioned the cables made from exotic wire because there is a mod for my speakers that will turn them into two-ways that can be bi-amped. I just haven't found the time to do it, yet. When that happens, I will essentially have a big 1.7 pair the size of a 3.7 pair that can be bi-amped, so I will need new cables. I happen to have another system with RCA LC-1A speakers that use Tel-Wire cables, so I switched the cables to the Maggies to see how the Tel-Wire ones compare. There was slightly less soundstage, but detail was slightly better. The biggest change was that the Tel-Wire ones seemed more tonally correct to my ears. Some of that may be attributable to connectors, but the switch from insanely expensive cables to more affordable ones was actually very palatable.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the Tel-Wire cables are made with Ohno continuous cast copper with Xhadow silver connectors.

*A caveat is that I am a manufacturer who uses Tel-Wire power cords in my product. I'm not the only manufacturer who likes the stuff, however. Steve Dobbins uses them with his Beat turntable. He uses them with all the electronics he sells, and in his personal system. Also, Rogue Audio shows with the products, and Frank Schroeder uses Tel-Wire in his personal system. At the end of the day, you can take my comments with a grain of salt because I do have that connection to the company, but I don't make any money from Tel-Wire. I just thought I would pass it along.

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