Demystifying budget phono preamps

andrewc · May 4, 2011

I've been researching budget phono preamps (for MM), and read how one person favors this model, and another person favors that model, and it's a bit overwhelming to say the least. I was wondering what, if any, where the objective differences between them. Are $50 models that much worse than $150 models (3x worse)?

The $50 models that stand out are:
TCC TC-750
ART DJ Pre II
Audio Technica PEQ3

The $150 models:
Vincent Audio - PHO-111
Musical Fidelity V-LPS
Cambridge Audio 640P
Rega Fono Mini
Pro-Ject Phono Box II

What perimeters are important to look at, and can you trust spec sheets? Has any third party done any scientific measurements on any of these units for comparative purposes? I'm less concerned with how some random person on the internet thinks it sounds subjectively, to how they perform electronically/scientifically. It seems like the only important factors would be how much noise they introduce to the chain (but what sort of noise figures are important?), how well they boost the signal, what is their frequency range, and how well do they preform at RIAA filtering.? Also, having a proper ground/power supply seems important as well.

I was set on the TC-750, but read a review on amazon how the capacitors were cheaper than in the ART box, and a lot of people like the PEQ3, then more people suggest spending $100 more and upgrading to one of those other units, and I'm not sure any of it really matters or is worth it. I know it boils down to how much I am willing to spend, but I wanted to see if anyone here had recommendations or facts (not opinions) to offer. Thanks for your time and help!

cjfrbw · May 4, 2011

It seems that for about a thousand dollars you could buy them all, make your own decision, and sell the rest.

Instead of current production rotgut, maybe you would be better off with proven vintage, such as one of the marvelous Yamaha preamps like c70? Can be had with looking and patience on ebay within your price range.

You are never going to get a firm answer based on the preferences of others, ultimately, you will just have to listen and make your own decision, especially at the lower end of the price scale.

mep · May 4, 2011

I would say if you are shopping the $50-$150 range, you were correct when you said it doesn't really matter and it's not worth it. I doubt many people here are using phono preamps in that price range, but if they are, they need to jump in. For once I don't agree with Carl's advice. I wouldn't want to spend $1K to buy all of the devices you listed, sit through the drudgery of listening to all of them, sell 7 of them, and probably lose 50% of the $1K you spent not including shipping and the listing fees on Audiogon or Fee Pay. For less than $500 you could buy a really good used SS preamp with a very nice phono section built in like a Yamaha C2a.

Johnny Vinyl · May 6, 2011

About $150 in Canada. A built in The Netherlands MM/MC phono pre: TONAR VINYLINE 4189. I doubt even a $500 phono pre would give me better results.

garylkoh · May 6, 2011

Hagerman "Bugle" - $149 assembled, or $39 as a half-kit (no parts). Dual mono construction - uses two 9V batteries. We heard this at a phono-stage shootout at the local audio club, and it sounded better than some in the $1,000 to $5,000 range.

Johnny Vinyl · May 6, 2011

garylkoh said:
Hagerman "Bugle" - $149 assembled, or $39 as a half-kit (no parts). Dual mono construction - uses two 9V batteries. We heard this at a phono-stage shootout at the local audio club, and it sounded better than some in the $1,000 to $5,000 range.

Link?

Steve Williams · May 6, 2011

http://www.hagtech.com/bugle.html

Johnny Vinyl · May 6, 2011

Steve Williams said:
http://www.hagtech.com/bugle.html

Sweet! Thank you Steve! If it's as good as they claim I may have to get one and see for myself.

garylkoh · May 6, 2011

When you do - try different batteries. I used to own a battery phono stage a long time ago, and Ever Ready Heavy Duty sounded best.

DonH50 · May 6, 2011

Curious -- what differences did you hear with different batteries, Gary? Sounds like they skimped on storage caps; maybe there's a mod market opportunity!

I do know some batteries have higher self-noise and such...

Aside for those using battery-powered gear: not all batteries are the same, and in particular not the same voltage. Some of the rechargable types have lower voltage and that may cause a difference in what you hear, depending on how the component's power supply and gain circuitry is designed.

garylkoh · May 6, 2011

Don,
you HAD to bite didn't you? I found alkalines "grainy", nickel cadmiums less dynamic, and heavy-duty the best of the lot (this is time prehistoric before metal hydrides, etc.) This is NOT on the Hagerman - it was some Swiss 2-inch by 8inch black box that I got rid of abut 20 years ago. I can't even remember the name of the thing......

The Hagerman is so cheap that I may just buy a kit and see how far I can take it...... OPA 2170 opamps, Vishay metal foil 0.01% resistors, WIMA caps.......

DonH50 · May 6, 2011

Well, come on, somebody was gonna'!

Rather than raise/debate the audibiity of this that and the other, I'll just comment that what very little I know of battery characteristics would agree with your asessments from the technical side. Alkalines offer higher power than standard carbon but noise characteristics very widely -- some better, some worse. NiCd cells tend to have lower voltage and lower peak current due to higher self-resistance, which could cause the dynamic issues you heard. Some of the early battery preamps (don't know anything about today's) sucked a lot of juice and it's possible the batteries weren't up to it.

One thing I observed many years ago, again may not be the case today, is that a lot of battery-powered components had very poor power supply designs. Just hooking a battery straight to the opamp (or whatever) is not always best. A battery is cool and eliminates line hum, at least from e.g. the power transformer, but does NOT obviate the need for proper decoupling, filtering, and shielding. It is not a perfect (ideal) power source.

All imo, since I'm far too lazy to dig up references, and besides I have dress rehearsal tonight so will be busy making music instead of listening to it - Don

Hxt1 · Dec 19, 2012

I was considering modding mine for tape pre duty. Someone posted the R values for nab and IEC curves... Thoughts?

JoeyGS · Jan 24, 2013

This is an interesting Phono Preamp from iFi:

http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iPhono.html

Review:

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/whats-8500-cartridge-doing-place-399-ifi-iphono-phono-preamplifier

Shaffer · Jan 24, 2013

JoeyGS said:
This is an interesting Phono Preamp from iFi:

http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iPhono.html

Review:

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/whats-8500-cartridge-doing-place-399-ifi-iphono-phono-preamplifier

I'd really like to check out this piece in my system.

mep · Jan 24, 2013

Shaffer said:
I'd really like to check out this piece in my system.

The price is right. Go for it.

Shaffer · Jan 24, 2013

mep said:
The price is right. Go for it.

There are a couple of pieces I'm looking at, this being one. It's just that I live in RFI hell and a home audition is almost mandatory. No local dealer, at least no one who likes me. Ultimately, I have my mind set on the Ayre phono stage. I had one in my K-1. Running the system balanced from input to output really made a HUGE difference in my environment.

paskinn · Jan 31, 2013

By sheer accident I came across something a bit 'counter intuitive' using a low price phonostage. I borrowed a Cambridge 640p, because my, pricey 'real' phonos,tage was being fixed. Anyway, just out of curiosity, I used my expensive step up (music first) to bypass the mc stage of the Cambridge.The result was quite dramatic, the 640p with the top quality sut, was transformed. it sounded every bit as good as phonostages at $2000, which the 'ordinary' 640p certainly didn't.which leads me to wonder if that first step, where the tiny signal meets the electronics and changes from movement to an electronic signal , is the really difficult trick. Or to ask another question, could a good sut, into a bargain phonostage, outperform a more balanced phonostage? it sounds implausible, but my ears suggest there just might be something in it.

Demystifying budget phono preamps

New Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

New Member

New Member

Similar threads