Gryphon Amplifier Crackle? Help!

LL21 · Oct 29, 2011

Hi Orb,

BTW, the Antileon still ain't fixed...i will sell it when it is. i am confident once they find the little resistor that has been the bane of the Antileon's existence, the thing will be perfect for probably 10 years. It has been totally recapped, and it sounds incredible.

Meanwhile, on your Devialet's...which sound remarkable mono'd...have you played with power cables at all? Just curious, as i was pretty blown away when they were mono'd to run a pair of Maxx IIs. Was just curious if you'd been tweaking with them at all.

Orb · Oct 29, 2011

Well glad your back to enjoying music.
And glad you also noticed the difference with the Devialet mono setup, it is definitely a notch up in sound quality and something any Devialet owner must consider IMO.

Regarding cables, I only ever messed around with interconnects and speaker cables because my mains is pretty crud here to be honest

The problem looks to be external to the house circuit, which makes it a bit trickier for solutions and not just putting in a quality seperate ring.
When I do consider sorting it out, then it will involve mains cable (but not going crazy on it and will test such as Isol-8 and a few other) and importantly mains conditioning that I have been a bit leery of in the past.

And yes, when the external influence is not happening then sound quality is better, as an fyi affects our monitors/plasma tv/pc/etc; very very subtle but audible effect on all of these.

Here is the "but" with the Devialet.....
I was mulling over either buying a 2nd Devialet or what I had an option on with ARC Ref5/ARC DS450 monos/potentially DAC8.

It looks like I am taking the plunge with the ARC setup even though the sound is not as delicate-finessed (although it was auditioned with LS27 and CD5 so these could be limiting factor) it has greater dynamic swells-weight and a subtle off-neutral sound.
The Devialet as you know does have good dynamics in general but missing the type that can shock with their presence.
That said, if I was using hirez music or was a reviewer (as a seperate baseline reference system for neutrality and incredible snr-"blackness" it provides) then mono Devialet IMO is a potential must have.
I doubt I will be listening to hirez anytime soon so that also helped to sway me with the two factors I really needed.

I will keep posted on my status as well

Cheers
Orb

LL21 · Oct 29, 2011

Hi Orb,

Have you already placed your order yet on the new setup? The reason i ask is that ARC Ref5 and DAC 8 are SOTA stunning...and if you think the new system is not as delicate finessed as Devialet...i would bet very heavily it is the 450 which i have not heard. the reason is that i definitely HAVE heard the Ref 5 and DAC 8 and imho, they have the potential to far, far surpass the Devialet. Get a great amp s/hand.

Orb · Oct 29, 2011

lloydelee21 said:
Hi Orb,

Have you already placed your order yet on the new setup? The reason i ask is that ARC Ref5 and DAC 8 are SOTA stunning...and if you think the new system is not as delicate finessed as Devialet...i would bet very heavily it is the 450 which i have not heard. the reason is that i definitely HAVE heard the Ref 5 and DAC 8 and imho, they have the potential to far, far surpass the Devialet. Get a great amp s/hand.

I can live with the compromise but remember I heard this with the LS27 and CD5, the system I am looking to pull the plug on is an upgrade to both of those.
However I agree it may be the DS450s but if so that is fine.
The DS450s are the way to go for me as I do not want hot amps anymore (otherwise would had considered purchasing the Jeff Rowland 625), and the DS450s are very good when considering the heat/energy efficient products.
I do suggest listening to one out of curiosity (in the right setup which is critical for ARC IMO) as it is very good and talking marginal differences, which as a compromise are ok in terms of satisfaction.
Of course these are not comparable to the new refs 150/210 amps, but are a match to many of the high end AB amps out there.

Once I have the system I will give an update whether the limitation was the amps or LS27/CD5.
Thanks
Orb

LL21 · Oct 29, 2011

totally different...what you heard will not compare with what you are thinking. the ARC Ref 5 is a stunning piece of equipment that for the price, despite being expensive on an absolute basis, is huge value for money relative to many units i have heard (including, for example, the Krell Evo Two which costs 3-4x more). The DAC 8 is also great. Not having heard the 450 amp...i cannot say how this setup would compare to Devialet's monod...but i would personally take them over the Devialets mono'd...because i know that the setup would give me the ability to move from 450 to something else...and then for sure you're in the stratsophere of sound. Enjoy and pls post when you've heard it!!!!!!

Orb · Oct 30, 2011

Well ironically I only listened to the DS450s out of curiosity as there are hardly any reviews out there and was content to hear it with the LS27 and CD5, which reflects how most would purchase or use the amp.
I was interested in the fact the DSi200 has such poor measurements and yet those listening to them had good things to say, so was curious how the DS450 sounds due to the single review so far not presenting measurements and wondering if the anomolies could be picked up in listening - coming to the conclusion one really needs to be trained for these specific traits if the DS450 also has similar measurements to the DSi200 as I suffered no niggles/dissonance/etc.

But what came out of the audition was just how good the setup was even with the small level of missing finesse-delicate-very low level detail compared to a mono setup of Devialets.
Surprisingly like the Devialet it does not sound like Class D or even like many of the AB amps, and closer to the good Class A/higher current bias ones, but as I mention it is not comparable to the best higher current bias amps out there (which your Collosium is one of).

BTW have you listened to the LS27?
I can understand why you feel how strong the Ref5 is, but not sure just how much better it is to the LS27, which according to many ARC dedicated threads they are closer than expected for the price difference (agree Ref5 is better but it may not be as much as many would expect).

Should be interesting anyway as a comparison and will keep all informed, although my experience will be very anecdotal as I will not bother having the LS27 brought back.

Cheers
Orb

LL21 · Oct 30, 2011

Hi Orb,

I have spoken with a friend whose ears i know, and who's owned much of the same equipment...in fact, that's how we got to know each other. i dont get the sense from him the LS27 is in in the same class as the Ref 5. Very, very good...just not in the same class. the ARC Ref 5 will not take a back seat to the Devialets...i have spoken at length with Dealer about putting the similar amount of money behind separates v Devialet. Hard to do...but they acknowledged second hand amp and Ref 3 + cd 5 would far surpass it. With Ref 5, DAC 8, i would not be surprised if (withright amp) you felt you were miles ahead. ymmv. good luck and pls post!

Orb · Oct 30, 2011

Yeah we are in agreement just will be interesting how much better the ref5 is to a LS27.
Ref3 I feel would not be any better than LS27, there are those I trust on Audioafic who have listened to both and are ARC fans, I am talking more from a measurement-performance-sound quality perspective rather than preference of sound where quite a few would go for Ref3.
Regarding Devialet, remember I am comparing to dual in mono setup that resolves certain aspects/factors and not the stereo single Devialet, which IMO all owners should upgrade to a mono setup as soon as they can afford.
I am a big fan of ARC but I feel enthusiasm does need to be tempered in general (I am such a party pooper

) when comparing to other SOTA-high end gear such as a dual Devialet, or between two close-ish models from say company where improvements may be small (I am with you that the cost does not bother me for the improvements but for others it will and price is also a factor in performance in their evaluation).
With that said I agree this is more about preferences than performance (if ignoring hi-rez recordings which would require the performance of the Devialet IMO but maybe that should be another thread).

Cheers
Orb

LL21 · Oct 30, 2011

REf 5 is much better than 3 imho, particularly given price difference which is not (that) much in context of sota products and given improvement. i would not have gone for Ref 3 over ACT 2...i was seriously tempted at ARC Ref 5. agree as u know on dual-mono. i am not (yet) so moved by hi-res that i have ever felt the need to consider it seriously...mainly because i still like to go on amazon and buy an album for 3 bucks. cannot do that on high-res...in fact, cannot even find that much stuff on hi-res compared to redbook.

Orb · Oct 30, 2011

Well the GAT I feel wins over the Ref5 when going by what many say so you were lucky to find a bargain deal on a GAT, only possible downsides of the GAT are when XLR works best into a power amp and from what I understand it is more susceptible to microphonics, you noticed that at all?
From what I gather the Ref5 wins out over the ET5 but it is close.

And like you I have too much that is only redbook quality with too much fluffing around at moment to find good mainstream hirez.
Cheers
Orb

LL21 · Oct 30, 2011

So far so good on microphonics on GAT...damping chassis made no changes, and tubes are in these isolated blocks or something in any event...floating chassis? However, stock EH tubes have now been replaced as they were super-noisy after 800 hours...i got Amperex 6922 PQ US White Label from Brent Jessee...stunning. Plus, CJ said a replacement EH set is on the way. Friend who also has GAT had same problem. As for XLR, i just put in a reterminated IC which is SE-XLR. All quiet now.

Good luck with ARC Ref 5...a winner imho and probably my fav piece of ARC gear that i've heard to date, and i've been fortunate to hear CD 3, 5, 7, 8, DAC 8, Ref 210, ARC Ref 3, 5 and a few others along the way.

microstrip · Oct 30, 2011

lloydelee21 said:
(...) Good luck with ARC Ref 5...a winner imho and probably my fav piece of ARC gear that i've heard to date, and i've been fortunate to hear CD 3, 5, 7, 8, DAC 8, Ref 210, ARC Ref 3, 5 and a few others along the way.

You have to hear the Ref 40 preamplifier.

BTW, when I owned the ART I had excellent results with the NOS Tungsram ECC88/6DJ8, that I could get in large quantities from Hungary.

LL21 · Oct 30, 2011

Yes, i know but that is no easy feat. Besides, with GAT, i am just enjoying finally having great music back in the house... That said, on cables, since i need 15' cables...i am wondering whether i go for 2nd hand used Transp Ref XL (7 yrs old)...and sit tight. Or try for XL MM2 second hand...or go with my manufacturer friend and let him custom-design something around his existing cables which i already know and like (i now own one as well having just installed it.)

Anyone ever compared old Ref/Ref XL (pre MM1) and new Ref/Ref XL MM2? (i have received mixed messages about MM1 so for now am going to pass on it.)

LL21 · Nov 30, 2011

So after how many months?...i got a call from a new engineer who kindly took in my Gryphon. He played it for the last 4-5 weeks...not a single problem. And then the buzz appeared...he found that directly behind the R XLR input, the power capacitor was not perfectly tightened down...whenever he touched/moved/prodded it, the buzz would stop and then come back. So he took all of them out, soaked them, tightened them back in with some kind of affixing paste to make them fit tighter. He will run it in for another week straight to make sure it does not come back.

Fingers crossed! I have bought a second hand Gryphon Colosseum in the meantime, and so have elected to move the Antileon on when it comes back (hopefully next week)...and i suspect the Antileon will work perfectly for another 5-10 years, if the 3 different engineers who have looked at it are correct in their assessment.

I suppose if demand is slow, i could biamp the X-1/Grand Slamms...though i suspect that is sheer lunacy or pointless as the speakers are 95db efficient and the Colosseum dual mono is already running roughly 250 watts pure Class A thru them with the ability to double down to 0.5ohm and double again on peak down to 0.5ohm (speakers are minimum 5ohm load of the speakers across nearly the entire audio spectrum.) Plus, i'd prefer to sell.

mep · Nov 30, 2011

Am I missing something here? Are you saying he removed filter capacitors and "soaked" them?

MylesBAstor · Nov 30, 2011

microstrip said:
You have to hear the Ref 40 preamplifier.
BTW, when I owned the ART I had excellent results with the NOS Tungsram ECC88/6DJ8, that I could get in large quantities from Hungary.

I know this writer who equipped his ART with ten new Tele CCAs. That cost a small fortune

LL21 · Dec 1, 2011

mep said:
Am I missing something here? Are you saying he removed filter capacitors and "soaked" them?

That is what he said. Clean them perhaps?

fas42 · Dec 1, 2011

mep said:
Am I missing something here? Are you saying he removed filter capacitors and "soaked" them?

This is probably what was meant: http://www.ehow.com/how_2304508_diagnose-hum-from-fender-rhodes.html

Frank

LL21 · Dec 1, 2011

Thanks Frank. If it works, i'm happy!

Gryphon Amplifier Crackle? Help!

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