My New Acquisition: Theta Generation VIII V2 DA Converter

Steve Bruzonsky

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May 15, 2010
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Given that the price difference between the two units this should be more reassuring to current and prospective GenVIII owners than parity of SQ. I am still mildly puzzled by the fact that the ud9004 and GenVIII were even close on redbook (while the PWD handily beats the ud9004), but this may be addressed in another rematch .....

Using the Gen 8 as both a DAC and preamp, I find that both coaxial digital from the Marantz, and stereo analog XLR from the Marantz, are not only very close in sonics, but that the they both easily sound better on redbook than the Perfect Wave Transport digital balanced out to the Gen 8. Query whether the Gen 8s simply a better stereo preamp than the Six Shooter used for this purpose!
 

tyree91

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May 13, 2010
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Using the Gen 8 as both a DAC and preamp, I find that both coaxial digital from the Marantz, and stereo analog XLR from the Marantz, are not only very close in sonics, but that the they both easily sound better on redbook than the Perfect Wave Transport digital balanced out to the Gen 8. Query whether the Gen 8s simply a better stereo preamp than the Six Shooter used for this purpose!
Steve, this is to be expected since outputing the PWT via AES/EBU loses the benefit of the I2S output which keeps the Word Clock, Bit Clock, and Master Clock as well as the Data separate to the DAC Input. The PWT cannot do this to the Gen VIII. Norm
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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Steve, this is to be expected since outputing the PWT via AES/EBU loses the benefit of the I2S output which keeps the Word Clock, Bit Clock, and Master Clock as well as the Data separate to the DAC Input. The PWT cannot do this to the Gen VIII. Norm

Taking the benefits of I2S out of the equation merely levels the playing field between the PWT and the ud9004. Given that the PWT is a $3000 dedicated transport, the fact that the ud9004 beats it to my is still a big surprise (and I am sure to PS Audio as well), and not at all to be expected.

Keep in mind that even without I2S, the PWT still uses the lens technology, has the "memory player" architecture, buffers and reclocks the signal, which should theoretically make this a better transport than the ud9004.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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Using the Gen 8 as both a DAC and preamp, I find that both coaxial digital from the Marantz, and stereo analog XLR from the Marantz, are not only very close in sonics, but that the they both easily sound better on redbook than the Perfect Wave Transport digital balanced out to the Gen 8. Query whether the Gen 8s simply a better stereo preamp than the Six Shooter used for this purpose!

Based on your experience there is no question the GenVIII is a better preamp than the SS. However, your shootout results also suggest the PWD is a better DAC than the GenVIII.

Shootout A: Using the same preamp (i.e. GenVIII), the ud9004 sounds very close to the GenVIII. Conclusion: the ud9004 and GenVIII DACs are very close.

Shootout B: Using the same preamp (i.e. SS), the PWD sounds better than the ud9004. Conclusion: the PWD is a better DAC than the ud9004.

Provisional conclusion 1: out of the three DACs the PWD is the best.

The ud9004 sounds better in shootout A than in shootout B

Conclusion 2: The GenVIII is a better preamp than the SS.

Conclusion 1 can be easily validate (or disproved) by a direct shootout between PWD and GenVIII (running the PWD analog into the GenVIII).

If conclusion 1 is confirmed in a direct (GenVIII / PWD) shootout, conclusion 3 is you would get most bang for the buck for 2 channel by keeping the PWD and gett a very good (i.e. better than the GenVIII) preamp with HT bypass.

Problem is because of the volume control issue, a better 2 channel preamp would not benefit your system on multi channel playback, so the GenVIII could still be a good compromise that improves SQ on both 2 channel and MCH. If on the other hand you find a way of integrating volume control of said high end 2 channel preamp with the the CBIII, this would be the optimal path to sonic bliss.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
3,139
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Smyrna, GA
Using the Gen 8 as both a DAC and preamp, I find that both coaxial digital from the Marantz, and stereo analog XLR from the Marantz, are not only very close in sonics, but that the they both easily sound better on redbook than the Perfect Wave Transport digital balanced out to the Gen 8. Query whether the Gen 8s simply a better stereo preamp than the Six Shooter used for this purpose!

One conclusion from this various shootouts stands out though. The ud9004 is one hell of a player, and the clear overall winner in terms of high end electronics per US$. It beats the PWT as a transport, and is close to the GenVIII as a DAC, both of which are pretty impressive achievements. Throw in stellar SACD performance and video and you have the proverbial $6000 "high-end bargain".
 

Steve Bruzonsky

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May 15, 2010
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Steve, this is to be expected since outputing the PWT via AES/EBU loses the benefit of the I2S output which keeps the Word Clock, Bit Clock, and Master Clock as well as the Data separate to the DAC Input. The PWT cannot do this to the Gen VIII. Norm

I have connected the PWT via IS2 to the PWD into the analog XLR inputs of the Gen 8 and the sound is comparable to the PWT balanced digital into the Gen 8 - not as good as Marantz coaxial into Gen 8!
 

Steve Bruzonsky

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May 15, 2010
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You have to read my earlier posts in this thread re the Gen 8 V2 DAC I picked up not quite two weeks ago to understand my below continuing comments:



2-15-2011



DO NOT believe everything you read. HA!



Last night I realized that I set up the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC and Transport a bit differently than before the Gen 8. Before, the PWT was on top of the PWD, little rubber legs off, with both on top of a set of three Symposium Acoustics rectangular aluminum couplers, on top of a Symposium Ultra platform. After the Gen 8, I set up each of the PWT and PWT independently, on top of a Symposium Ultra platform each, but with a set of three Symposium Rollerblocks 2 under each component and on top of the platform. The concern is whether the Rollerblocks negatively affect the sonics, compared to using the “cheaper” Symposium aluminum rectangular couplers. Historically, I have sometimes found the couplers work better soundwise. And last night, I clearly felt that. And I setup the PWT via balanced digital to the Gen 8, and also PWT to PWD via I2S (a HDMI) cable, with analog stereo XLRs from the PWD into the Gen 8 XLR stereo analog inputs. Clearly, playing some Acoustic Alchemy Best of CD, the PWD-PWD combo XLR stereo analog into Gen 8 sounds really nice, and better and more magical than the PWT balanced digitial into the Gen 8.



Keep in mind that in the past, the Marantz coaxial digital into the PWD was even better sounding than the PWT I2S into the PWD. And I’ve been using the Marantz coaxial digital into the Gen 8 and been quite “moved” by the sonics.



What I’m saying is that due to the need to (1) re burn in the Gen 8 – after being off for some time prior to my buying it used off Audiogon, I have heard sonics improve as I played it more – especially at the magic “100 hours” noted in the manual; and more recently I’ve been playing stuff more often to ensure “burn-in”; and (2) the Rollerblocks just didn’t work well sonically at least under the PWD and quite possibly the PWT.



Now that I have conquered the two step program above, as I have time, I will do some more comparisons. Everything I’ve “observed” before may not be totally valid anymore!
 

Steve Bruzonsky

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May 15, 2010
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You have to read my earlier posts in this thread re the Gen 8 V2 DAC I picked up not quite two weeks ago to understand my below continuing comments:

2-19-2011

I have the PS Audio PWT and PWD each separately on Symposium Ultra platforms.
Initially each component on a set of 3 Symposium Rollerblocks 2 over the Ultras.
I connected PWT via digital coaxial, digital XLR, and IS2 to PWD, and PDW stereo analog XLR out to Gen 8 Series 2 DAC. But then I determined the sonics were better by placing a set of 3 rectangular Symposium aluminum couplers between the Ultras and the PWD and PWT. On to redbook CDs Jacintha “Here’s To Ben” and Acoustic Alchemy “The Very Best of”.
Sonically, I2S was the best, with digital XLR close second, and digital coaxial a close but not quite third, in sonic quality – this was stereo analog XLR out from the PS Audio PWD DAC to the Gen 8 using the Gen 8 as analog preamp.

Next, I changed connections, to use digital coaxial from the Marantz UD9004 to the Gen 8.
Immediately upon inserting the Jacintha CD, there was clearly better sonics across the board, especially vocals. And with the Acoustic Alchemy CD, again, clearly better. Made the slight differences using the PWT only with its digital coaxial, balanced and I2S connections
as essentially nothing, really, the Marantz is easily better using digital coaxial than using the PWT to PWD using any digital connection.

Next, I changed connections, to use stereo analog XLR from the Marantz to the Gen 8.
And at the Gen 8, in the menu, I used the volume offset feature so that the volume or loudness of both the stereo analog XLR and the digital coaxial from the Marantz to the Gen 8 were equivalent. AND – the winner – seriously, so close that its very hard to tell.

So what does this mean? When I integrate the Gen 8 Series 2 with my soon to come back upgraded Theta CB3 HD, I’ll be able to use the coaxial digital of the Marantz to redbook CDs, use DPL2 or DTS Neo to expand to my 5.3 system which includes setting high pass and low pass crossovers for an even more natural “expanded” soundstage with appreciably better bass that one can both hear and feel. WOW!

Watched blu ray of “The Social Network”. Sounds good using either coaxial digital (outputs hi rez blu ray tracks at 48 kHz) or stereo analog XLR (Marantz’ internal DACs do DA conversion). Watched it using coaxial digital as that sounded better than the already excellent sounding stereo analog XLR. Now watching Austin City Limits with Willie Nelson and Asleep at the Wheel, with DirecTV DVR set to PCM 2.0. WOW! No matter how good DD 5.1 via my CB3 has sounded, this is clearly better with less fatigue and hi rez inspiration!!!
Makes me even more excited for when I get back my upgraded CB3 HD integrated with the Gen 8 DAC!!!
 
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Steve Bruzonsky

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2010
199
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1,575
Pair Citadel 1.5s, Gen VIII Series 2 DAC & CB3



Yea. CB3 HD upgrade is in but not back yet.

Bought a Gen 8 Series 2 on Audiogon the other week. Luv it!

A pair of Citadel 1.5 amplifiers, each with dual Reich high pressure binding posts, will be here next Thursday, also off Audiogon.

To go with my previous Enterprise monoblocks (5.3 system), four Aerial Acoustics 9s,
Aerial CC5, three Aerial SW12 subwoofers, etc, etc

And here Big Brother thought he had "Theta scooped" me with his having the first
CB3 HD!
 

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