The Ugly American

GSOphile · Sep 10, 2018

It appears that there are still a few adults left in the room:
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/...erena-williams-behavior-at-us-open-final.html

dminches · Sep 10, 2018

I am surprised at the almost universal condemnation of Serena from Saturday’s final. While I agree that her behavior was less than ideal, the umpire did things that no other umpire does. The initial call for coaching was total BS. Every coach coaches during the match. Why did he single out her coach? All the commentators admitted that coaching goes on in every match. I am not even sure Serena saw him which may have triggered her (over) reaction. If he is looking at Serena’s box he can’t be looking at Osaka’s box to see if they are coaching. The call was unnecessary.

The racket throw was properly called.

The umpire should have tried to de-escalate things but instead penalized her a game instead of first giving her a warning. Serena is right that men say much worse things and nothing happens until it gets excessive. Just saying that he was a thief (referring to stealing a point from her) did not warrant a game penalty in a grand slam final.

Should Serena be mature enough to let things go? Yes. Was the umpire at fault for not warning her first? Yes.

In the end she hurt herself by arguing and losing her focus.

Osaka was going to win the match either way, but Serena was the victim of a poor umpire.

dminches · Sep 10, 2018

jeffrey_t said:
Let's be clear, after the warnings these players stop complaining and played out the game. Serena did not.

What warning?

The list you posted includes him telling Venus to tell her coach to stop coaching. Why wasn’t Serena told that? Seems like an inconsistent application of the rule.

ack · Sep 10, 2018

From Down Under

Why don't we all start attacking the referees in every sport we play; that'll teach them, huh? And then attack the opponents for all the fouls and get even, because they are unfair; that'll settle it...

Mike Lavigne · Sep 10, 2018

NorthStar said:
After I've read your reply to Peter it made me pause for a serious moment.
By the way Mike, you did not include FOX news media? Just curious that's all.

Bob,

I've written and deleted 2 answers to your question so far; trying not to get political.

i'll just say that Fox News, agree or disagree, does not care very much about being 'safe', so they are much less likely to have that issue restrict open dialog.....as opposed to more PC media I mentioned.

PeterA · Sep 10, 2018

GSOphile said:
It appears that there are still a few adults left in the room:
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/...erena-williams-behavior-at-us-open-final.html

Navratilova has been around and I respect her opinion. She makes an excellent point about breaking racquets so that everyone can see, including the kids. If you are a role model, it's better to act like one. Fighting for woman's rights by arguing and smashing her racquet? Come on. Serena should use her tennis talent to earn a voice and respect, and then advocate for her cause off the court. She could learn a few things from Martina.

Wow, Foxnews seems pretty reasoned and sober on this one. And the NYT printed Navratilova's comments. She's pushing back the narative. Good job.

dminches · Sep 10, 2018

PeterA said:
Wow, Foxnews seems pretty reasoned and sober on this one. And the NYT printed Navratilova's comments. She's pushing back the narative. Good job.

For what it’s worth, her arch rival, Chrissie Evert, disagrees with her.

Breaking a racquet doesn’t make someone a bad role model. People get angry. Big deal.

PeterA · Sep 10, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
Bob,

I've written and deleted 2 answers to your question so far; trying not to get political.

i'll just say that Fox News, agree or disagree, does not care very much about being 'safe', so they are much less likely to have that issue restrict open dialog.....as opposed to more PC media I mentioned.

Well said, Mike. Fox is more of an outlier, and not a part of the establishment. They can take risks, and often do. Some despise them for it. They stand in stark contrast to the mainstream media. Looks like Navratilova is breaking from the tennis elite on this one.

ack · Sep 10, 2018

I now know who's watching Fox. LOL

PeterA · Sep 10, 2018

dminches said:
For what it’s worth, her arch rival, Chrissie Evert, disagrees with her.

Breaking a racquet doesn’t make someone a bad role model. People get angry. Big deal.

Are you OK with kids watching and then emulating that kind of behavior? Smashing a racquet that way in a Grand Slam final is a pretty big deal, IMO. If some mom in my club's annual tennis tournament did that in front of the other members and their kids, you bet it would be a pretty big deal. Sure people get angry all the time, but not often on a world stage with everyone watching. Didn't Serena tell the umpire when she thought he had accused her of cheating that she wants to set an example for her child? Is cheating also OK now, no big deal? Everyone does it?

PeterA · Sep 10, 2018

ack said:
I now know who's watching Fox. LOL

Along with all the other news channels. I want to see all the different perspectives. Horns, stats, cones, ribbons, you get the idea.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 10, 2018

ack said:
I now know who's watching Fox. LOL

for 15+ years every night Fox News is on while eating dinner and hanging with my wife. she is the fan, I exit as soon as i can to go listen to music...….not that I totally disagree, but I don't really want to hear it, as I get plenty of reality at work all day. I don't need the aggravation.

personally I partake in lots of main stream media news all day and while web surfing. so I live with multiple perspectives. and I manage 150 people in (one of) the most liberal place(s) in the world. so I live PC every day.

Tango · Sep 10, 2018

I see the name of this thread and something is nagging me although I am not American. Does the word “Ugly ...” use with other nationals? Or is it a stereotype aiming just for American?

Kind regards,
Tang

Mike Lavigne · Sep 10, 2018

Tango said:
I see the name of this thread and something is nagging me although I am not American. Does the word “Ugly ...” use with other nationals? Or is it a stereotype aiming just for American?

Kind regards,
Tang

Ugly American

dminches · Sep 10, 2018

PeterA said:
Are you OK with kids watching and then emulating that kind of behavior? Smashing a racquet that way in a Grand Slam final is a pretty big deal, IMO. If some mom in my club's annual tennis tournament did that in front of the other members and their kids, you bet it would be a pretty big deal. Sure people get angry all the time, but not often on a world stage with everyone watching. Didn't Serena tell the umpire when she thought he had accused her of cheating that she wants to set an example for her child? Is cheating also OK now, no big deal? Everyone does it?

These athletes are competing. Not everything is for setting an example for kids.

What are you defining as cheating? I really don’t know how much you follow tennis but coaching occurs ALL THE TIME. The umpire decided to make a big deal out of it. This wasn’t an isolated incident. I am 100% certain Osaka received coaching during her match.

dminches · Sep 10, 2018

Tango said:
I see the name of this thread and something is nagging me although I am not American. Does the word “Ugly ...” use with other nationals? Or is it a stereotype aiming just for American?

Kind regards,
Tang

Ironically, the worst behaved current tennis player is Australian, Nick Kyrgios.

NorthStar · Sep 10, 2018

In regards to that incident between Serena Williams and the umpire, I've mentioned some of my sources to get the most neutral views, best perspectives.

My best friend is @ war with one of his sons, they are both very passionate about economics. One is a CNN man and the other a FOX man. And they are both Canadians like me. ...Not really @ war but their opinion diverge enough to render them ... "edgy" if I may say so.

I rarely check the Canadian news. I like a better view from Europe, UK, France, ...more neutral. ...In the US the New York Times & Washington Post.

* I don't know what truly triggered Ramos the Portuguese umpire with vast experience to first give a warning about coaching. But I'm thinking what if he wouldn't have done so, what would have been the outcome? I think it would have been better. That was a very risky call when you really think about it. Because from that everything else happened.

Naomi would have still won, or maybe not?
But Serena wouldn't have been put in the situation that she ended up. She perhaps still would have lost, but without losing her cool so much.

Anyway, a good lesson for everyone. It cannot be undone what has been done, best's to move forward and close that sad page, yes? Of course yes.

Here's my last word: Congratulations Naomi Osaka!

P.S. Post #44 - great cartoon. :b

DaveyF · Sep 10, 2018

dminches said:
These athletes are competing. Not everything is for setting an example for kids.

What are you defining as cheating? I really don’t know how much you follow tennis but coaching occurs ALL THE TIME. The umpire decided to make a big deal out of it. This wasn’t an isolated incident. I am 100% certain Osaka received coaching during her match.

Agreed, if you follow tennis a lot, this is fairly common. However, I don’t think that makes it necessarily right, but I do think this ref made too big a deal of it...and as a consequence of his actions he managed to alter the possible course of this match. Although, I think Serena would probably have lost regardless.
I really think that Serena has a valid point, why did this guy react the way he did to her, when there were other options available to him....and that he had taken when refereeing other men’s matches.
Could Serena have reacted differently to the situation, of course, but the fiery competitor in her took over...and although we might not like what that looks like, that’s almost certainly what pulls her through when the competition gets tough.

dminches · Sep 10, 2018

DaveyF said:
Agreed, if you follow tennis a lot, this is fairly common. However, I don’t think that makes it necessarily right, but I do think this ref made too big a deal of it...and as a consequence of his actions he managed to alter the possible course of this match. Although, I think Serena would probably have lost regardless.
I really think that Serena has a valid point, why did this guy react the way he did to her, when there were other options available to him....and that he had taken when refereeing other men’s matches.
Could Serena have reacted differently to the situation, of course, but the fiery competitor in her took over...and although we might not like what that looks like, that’s almost certainly what pulls her through when the competition gets tough.

Exactly. Even though Serena’s reaction may have been extreme, part of the umpire’s job is to control and de-escalate. Ramos failed.

XV-1 · Sep 10, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
Ugly American

Correct. that's why I chose it. Perfect for Serena

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