The Ugly American

XV-1 · Sep 9, 2018

Serena Williams behaviour at the US Open final was an absolute disgrace and took away from what should of been a surreal joyful win for Naomi Osaka.

the US crowd were not far behind after almost being incited to carry on with boos.

Serena then continues to show zero class by railroading this into some sexiest BS battle.

Serena of course has history of being a bully and a cheat.
the 2009 US open semi where she was losing and threatened to a lines woman " shove the tennis ball down your throat" and that she would kill her. classy lady.

This of course should not take anything away from the brilliant effort by the delightful charming innocent Osaka who plays the game in the right way and can play. She will win plenty more grand slams.

PeterA · Sep 9, 2018

XV-1 said:
Serena Williams behaviour at the US Open final was an absolute disgrace and took away from what should of been a surreal joyful win for Naomi Osaka.

the US crowd were not far behind after almost being incited to carry on with boos.

Serena then continues to show zero class by railroading this into some sexiest BS battle.

Serena of course has history of being a bully and a cheat.
the 2009 US open semi where she was losing and threatened to a lines woman " shove the tennis ball down your throat" and that she would kill her. classy lady.

This of course should not take anything away from the brilliant effort by the delightful charming innocent Osaka who plays the game in the right way and can play. She will win plenty more grand slams.

I agree. Such incredibly bad behavior, all of her own making. And she just had to pull out the gender card. What little respect I had left for her character is now completely gone. She's a great player with unbelievable talent, but she is also a really bad role model. I feel so terrible for Osaka who played a tremendous match and showed such grace.

This is not surreal, it is simply very bad behavior.

Adidas +1, Nike -2

XV-1 · Sep 9, 2018

On the opposite side of the spectrum.

Naomi Osaka. What a wonderful, beautiful, innocent humble young lady. Very nice US open interview.

She is all class and grace.

jeff1225 · Sep 9, 2018

And we've seen this behavior before when she was down against Kim Clijsters. Serena knows she's going to lose, just looking for an excuse.

NorthStar · Sep 9, 2018

jeffrey_t said:
And we've seen this behavior before when she was down against Kim Clijsters. Serena knows she's going to lose, just looking for an excuse.

+1 --- Pure & simple

PeterA · Sep 9, 2018

I am surprised that so many in the media and the tennis commentators are supporting Serena's argument and that the discussion in the media seems to have shifted away from her poor behavior and toward the gender inequities in the game of tennis. It's clear to me that kids watching sports should not look up to athletes yelling and pointing their fingers at the umpires. That is certainly not an example of good behavior, nor is smashing one's racket on the ground in anger. It seems pretty simple.

I found it funny that John McEnroe called out the NYT as "fake news" because they got a bunch of facts about him wrong regarding his own penalties and racquet smashing history. Too funny.

Folsom · Sep 9, 2018

Wasn't this solved in '73 ????

Typical, wants a good girl cookie for being a monster that is "standing up" for all the other big babies in the world - entitled brats. These are the same people that ruined return policies at stores because of abuse.

NorthStar · Sep 9, 2018

Same here Peter, it is surreal. Something psychologic must be @ play here; the enormous superhero status of Serena Williams.

There are other cases where the media and public opinion is routing for people who were abused in the past and not always with righteousness. ...Asia Argento, girlfriend of Anthony Bourdain. The winds are shifting.

In Serena's case there are big names who are siding with her. And those big stars have a great impact on public opinion and media. If the media were righteous they would have to surmount huge challenges; they are afraid to do so, in my humble opinion. The US Tennis Association are the one under scrutiny instead, Ramos the umpire and his reputation. The dress code that recently made controversial news regarding Serena herself and another woman tennis player. They did apologize to that other woman for when during a break she fixed her small clothing top. That was overboard that one.
For Serena and her tight black suit outfit; there are many Serena's supporters, but Serena simply agreed to come back to more traditional outfits.

Peter, I think that because of the new "Me too" movement and recent news of the roughly last eighteen months or so, is some of the reason why the media is spreading those less than accurate news to the general public.
If you look @ Serena's biggest supporters and defenders they have very strong voices for women.

Overall I don't get blinded by the wrong trends dispersed from this case here.
Serena is the one who brought it to herself; her frustration took over, her personal disappointment of trailing behind Naomi Osaka during the two sets, her great super power and influence over Ramos and her audience and the media and the general public and her powerful defenders.

Serena Williams totally lost her cool, there are no two ways about that.
I agree with you and XV-1 our thread starter.
I'm sure there is more to come.

GSOphile · Sep 9, 2018

Can dish it out but can't take it. Classless display... playing sexism card. Sore loser and a person from whom much more should be expected. Big fail. And IMHO big fail for media and others defending this sorry behavior.

DaveyF · Sep 9, 2018

I’m going to probably be the lone dissenter here, but I actually agreed with Serena!
While I think that the whole thing about the coaching call was questionable, even though her coach admitted to doing it...I would say..so what? These athletes are coached all year round, and imo if they can be pushed by their coach into a better performance, then that should be allowed to happen....it does in just about every other sport. While, I agree that it is against the rules of the USTA, that rule has always seemed a bit crazy to me. Sure, Serena may have overreacted, but why was the ref so much into trying to influence the match...all he had to do was to ask the player to stop. Didn’t have to do what he did.
So, I’m with Serena on this one. Good for her for standing up to what she believes is correct...and BTW...and to add more controversy, I guess, I always thought Johnny Mac was right in his tirades against the linesmen and refs as well! Most of the time, he was being cheated or penalized for no reason.IMO.

NorthStar · Sep 9, 2018

Davey, Ramos and the rest of his gang they hit their plateau with Serena, she took advantage of her super power...everyone is human, there are no super gods, everyone is equal, including Serena and Naomi and Ramos and everyone else watching and commenting.

As for Johnny Mac I just don't know, I wasn't watching, but my Mom certainly did...she much prefers men tennis.

XV-1 · Sep 9, 2018

It is perhaps Serena that owes the umpire an apology

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/it-is-serena-williams-who-owes-an-apology-to-umpire-carlos-ramos-20180909-p502q2.html

mtseymour · Sep 9, 2018

DaveyF said:
While, I agree that it is against the rules of the USTA, that rule has always seemed a bit crazy to me. Sure, Serena may have overreacted, but why was the ref so much into trying to influence the match...all he had to do was to ask the player to stop. Didn’t have to do what he did.

Serena is probably the greatest female player of all time. So why does she get the additional benefit of ignoring certain rules? While trailing Osaka, Serena clearly received coaching. Why should she get a free pass as a GOAT? She went on to break her racket, and go on a long rant against the umpire (liar, thief, etc). As a veteran player, she should know that penalties would escalate from a warning to loss of a point and a game.

I like watching Serena, but she's so hyper-competitive that she can't control herself when losing. This incident brings back the ugly 2009 loss against Kim Clijsters. Serena was angry about a foot fault, and pointed at the lines woman who made the call. She yelled: "I'm going to shove this [expletive] ball down your [expletive] throat." Should Serena be able to ignore foot faults too?

PeterA · Sep 10, 2018

XV-1 said:
It is perhaps Serena that owes the umpire an apology

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/it-is-serena-williams-who-owes-an-apology-to-umpire-carlos-ramos-20180909-p502q2.html

And Serena owes Osaka an apology too. Despite what she said at the trophy presentation, the whole episode, as always, was about Serena. This day belonged to Osaka. Serena should be ashamed of herself.

XV-1 · Sep 10, 2018

PeterA said:
And Serena owes Osaka an apology too. Despite what she said at the trophy presentation, the whole episode, as always, was about Serena. This day belonged to Osaka. Serena should be ashamed of herself.

Yes, agree totally. Osaka even the day after has held her grace and humility saying she understood why the crowd was booing as everyone wanted Serena to get her 24th grand slam.

such a refreshing humble young lady.

PeterA · Sep 10, 2018

I watched a pre men's final discussion yesterday on ESPN about the women's final. Chris Everett, and John and Patrick McEnroe were being interviewed. They all seemed to support Serena's behavior and mistreatment by the umpire. Patrick McEnroe even said that the umpire should use his discretion to control the match and apply warnings according to the moment and who was playing. He suggested that the umpire should actually take into account Serena's past and the challenges she faced coming up in the sport. He said that she was called names etc as a young player, and basically faced different issues growing up. He was arguing that she should be treated differently because of where she came from and that the rules should not be applied equally in all circumstances. At least that is how I interpreted what he was saying.

I though professional sports was the last remaining place were true meritocracy was celebrated and that one should be judged solely on his or her athletic ability and sportsmanship. Period. I was shocked at the discussion I was watching on ESPN.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 10, 2018

PeterA said:
I watched a pre men's final discussion yesterday on ESPN about the women's final. Chris Everett, and John and Patrick McEnroe were being interviewed. They all seemed to support Serena's behavior and mistreatment by the umpire. Patrick McEnroe even said that the umpire should use his discretion to control the match and apply warnings according to the moment and who was playing. He suggested that the umpire should actually take into account Serena's past and the challenges she faced coming up in the sport. He said that she was called names etc as a young player, and basically faced different issues growing up. He was arguing that she should be treated differently because of where she came from and that the rules should not be applied equally in all circumstances. At least that is how I interpreted what he was saying.

I though professional sports was the last remaining place were true meritocracy was celebrated and that one should be judged solely on his or her athletic ability and sportsmanship. Period. I was shocked at the discussion I was watching on ESPN.

don't be shocked. it's like watching CNN or MSNBC. once an event crosses over into the 'news' category then the rules change and protecting the network comes into play. especially after the social media spin creates a narrative. any other direction by ESPN would create an uproar. and any other position by those people would expose them to lots of heat.

I hear it on my local sports radio too. people I know personally temper their personal views to protect themselves and their stations on social issues.

don't be shocked.

i'm not even saying this particular event is without shades of grey on both sides. I am not involved enough in watching tennis to even really know about that. only that the facts are secondary to being safe for the networks.

XV-1 · Sep 10, 2018

PeterA said:
I watched a pre men's final discussion yesterday on ESPN about the women's final. Chris Everett, and John and Patrick McEnroe were being interviewed. They all seemed to support Serena's behavior and mistreatment by the umpire. Patrick McEnroe even said that the umpire should use his discretion to control the match and apply warnings according to the moment and who was playing. He suggested that the umpire should actually take into account Serena's past and the challenges she faced coming up in the sport. He said that she was called names etc as a young player, and basically faced different issues growing up. He was arguing that she should be treated differently because of where she came from and that the rules should not be applied equally in all circumstances. At least that is how I interpreted what he was saying.

I though professional sports was the last remaining place were true meritocracy was celebrated and that one should be judged solely on his or her athletic ability and sportsmanship. Period. I was shocked at the discussion I was watching on ESPN.

Amazing.

Try being a Japanese woman in a mixed race relationship in Japan with a black Hatian man. Things were so difficult they had to use the mother's Osaka maiden name in order to rent apartments and for Naomi and her sister to get into Japanese schools etc. This is why Naomi has Osaka and not her fathers last name.

jeff1225 · Sep 10, 2018

DaveyF said:
I’m going to probably be the lone dissenter here, but I actually agreed with Serena!
While I think that the whole thing about the coaching call was questionable, even though her coach admitted to doing it...I would say..so what? These athletes are coached all year round, and imo if they can be pushed by their coach into a better performance, then that should be allowed to happen....it does in just about every other sport. While, I agree that it is against the rules of the USTA, that rule has always seemed a bit crazy to me. Sure, Serena may have overreacted, but why was the ref so much into trying to influence the match...all he had to do was to ask the player to stop. Didn’t have to do what he did.
So, I’m with Serena on this one. Good for her for standing up to what she believes is correct...and BTW...and to add more controversy, I guess, I always thought Johnny Mac was right in his tirades against the linesmen and refs as well! Most of the time, he was being cheated or penalized for no reason.IMO.

What separates the champions from the non-champions in the Grand Slams is their mental game. The absence of coaching in these elite events is what separates tennis from EVERY OTHER sport in the world. This is demonstrated by the fact that many top ranked players that have won multiple championships have never won a Grand Slam.

If Serena was winning and this happened, it would be a different story. She was getting beaten (badly), just like she was by Kim Clijsters in 2009. It's only going to get worse for Serena as, like Tiger Woods, she will be a symptom of her own success. Bigger, taller and stronger players like Osaka, Keys and Coco are now playing tennis.

It terms of Jonny Mac, different situation as there was no challenge system and the line judges were not professionals just club members. Jonny Mac = bad line calls. Serena = bad attitude.

Audiophile Bill · Sep 10, 2018

‘roid rage’

The Ugly American

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member