Heavyweight amplifier showdown- Boulder 2160 v Wavac HE 833 mkII

spiritofmusic · Sep 5, 2018

Bill, I did find the Nat Magma v Mayer 46 comparison on the Pnoes instructive.

170W v 0.46W, on 117dB efficient horns.

The Mayers pretty much better in all respects, and re headroom, a lot less in it than those Wattage ratings would suggest.

bonzo75 · Sep 5, 2018

spiritofmusic said:
Bill, I did find the Nat Magma v Mayer 46 comparison on the Pnoes instructive.

170W v 0.46W, on 117dB efficient horns.

The Mayers pretty much better in all respects, and re headroom, a lot less in it than those Wattage ratings would suggest.

Marc, the day we were there only the Nats were played? Mayer wasn't played?

spiritofmusic · Sep 5, 2018

I thought we did swap.
We started Magma, went to Mayer 46.
Msybe Bill or The General can confirm.

bonzo75 · Sep 5, 2018

spiritofmusic said:
I thought we did swap.
We started Magma, went to Mayer 46.
Msybe Bill or The General can confirm.

Ok possible my memories are you constantly chatting, so might have missed the amp swap

spiritofmusic · Sep 5, 2018

Well we just had no end of chat about how poor your choice of vinyl pressings were.

infinitely baffled · Sep 5, 2018

Boys you have had me laughing out loud with your verbal jousting today. Long may it continue :b

To Cjfrbw, i believe i would describe myself as a sensualist, but only because I'm guessing at the definition of explicitist, in this context.
But i like hearing the music sound the way the performer meant it to, as opposed to listening critically to what they actually played.

Weirdly, in the context of my system, i would place both Boulder and Wavac at the euphonic end of the scale

infinitely baffled · Sep 5, 2018

Audiophile Bill said:
I heard these on the Pnoe. They were okay but nothing more tbh. Obviously system dependent.

Wotcha Bill

Do you mean you heard les Pnoes driven by Wavac?
Please, tell us more?

infinitely baffled · Sep 5, 2018

Audiophile Bill said:
Lol. I think the Wavac will defo seduce for a while but Gavin is a bass junky and listens almost exclusively to dance music with loads of deep bass. The Focal woofers like juice...

Yes the smart money deffo agrees. However the wild card is Alt-j....delicate, ethereal, dreamlike, quite the contrast to my usual fare and could make things interesting.
However as several have observed, my sine que non is bass- driven deep house, drum and bass etc

infinitely baffled · Sep 5, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
very interesting comparison to me.

6 months ago I did a very similar comparison in my room; the dart 458's verses the Lamm ML3's then later also the big VAC Statement 450's.....all with the dart preamp.

comparing this situation to mine; gav has amps that are more extreme in their solid state-ness and tubey-ness than the 458's and ML3's. so the choices will be even more divergent. and the Wavac's will have closer to adequate power (with considerable measured distortion) on gav's speakers than the ML3's might have on my speakers. (not an issue for the big VAC's).

then there is the Wavac preamp which could shift things in various ways.

my thread went on for 1200+ posts. I'd say this one could also be very entertaining; although the 'Lamm Nation' fanbase (said with much love) was quite passionate on many aspects. not sure Wavac will get the same degree of (unconditional) faith, not that it's not deserving (at one point I came very close to buying a set of HE-833 Mk2's myself).

Hello again Mike ?

I get very excited when i find myself considering items that you have also considered. A badge of honour, indeed

infinitely baffled · Sep 5, 2018

dan31 said:
My bet is the Wavac impresses with wonderful tube sound. My bet is the Boulder is a much better pairing with your speakers, especially long term.

Good call, Dan

infinitely baffled · Sep 5, 2018

KeithR said:
man, this sounds like fun!

I'm as excited as a child watching the first snow of the year

infinitely baffled · Sep 5, 2018

GMKF said:
Have fun. Probaly the one of "best" and one of the "worst" measuring amps beeing compared is always fun.

Yes you nailed it.
Could they be more different, on paper?

infinitely baffled · Sep 5, 2018

morricab said:
One of the best sounding amps I ever heard was the WAVAC HE805, which is one model below the one in question...however, it is a very different output tube than this 833 beast.

One of the best looking, too

Audiophile Bill · Sep 5, 2018

I heard the Wavac 805 monoblocks driving the Pnoes for a few weeks cos the General had some to play with. It was okay but was easily beaten on those speakers by the baby 46 Mayer power amp.

Audiophile Bill · Sep 5, 2018

Don’t get me wrong, I think you’ll love the Wavac for a while but when your mad man side comes out and you decide to really play loud then the Boulder will just laugh at the Focals and the Wavac’s lipstick will start to smudge.

bonzo75 · Sep 5, 2018

Audiophile Bill said:
I heard the Wavac 805 monoblocks driving the Pnoes for a few weeks cos the General had some to play with. It was okay but was easily beaten on those speakers by the baby 46 Mayer power amp.

Question is how was it compared to the 18w 211? The 1w is a very specific amp and cannot really be used in other applications

Audiophile Bill · Sep 5, 2018

We never did that particular head to head in the same day but by memory it was easily beaten across the board. Much quieter, better resolution, more dynamic and slam, more musically engaging etc. Different ballpark in fact Ked.

Audiophile Bill · Sep 5, 2018

Anyway - we are all talking apples and oranges cos neither the Wavac 805 nor the Mayer 211 will do for the Focals. The Wavac 833 is obviously much more powerful and potentially more suitable though.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 5, 2018

Audiophile Bill said:
Don’t get me wrong, I think you’ll love the Wavac for a while but when your mad man side comes out and you decide to really play loud then the Boulder will just laugh at the Focals and the Wavac’s lipstick will start to smudge.

obviously the big darts are still here, and the ML3's and VAC Statements are gone. there is simply no limitation to the darts in my system on any music. I never think about what the amp can't do regardless of the music.

as much as I liked/loved those tube amps there was always some sort of limitation or musical artifact present. I still greatly enjoyed those amps and recognize the attributes they bring, but preferred the unfettered musical direction of the darts to live with.

bonzo75 · Sep 5, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
obviously the big darts are still here, and the ML3's and VAC Statements are gone. there is simply no limitation to the darts in my system on any music. I never think about what the amp can't do regardless of the music.

as much as I liked/loved those tube amps there was always some sort of limitation or musical artifact present. I still greatly enjoyed those amps and recognize the attributes they bring, but preferred the unfettered musical direction of the darts to live with.

It will be interesting to know what you like less in your system...a tube amp, tube pre, or tube phono. Or rather, which tube component would you tolerate more if you had to have one. I suggest trying the new Allnic phono and the Ayon conquistador pre.

Heavyweight amplifier showdown- Boulder 2160 v Wavac HE 833 mkII

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