The Viet Nam War, Ken Burns Documentary

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,351
5,461
2,810
Manila, Philippines
I was only 15 when the VM war ended but I was reading it virtually everyday in our Current Events Digest. Time for me to get a clearer picture of the whole thing. Will watch the docu for sure.
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,351
5,461
2,810
Manila, Philippines
Just finished 3 episodes and I must admit I am as shell shocked and astonished as can be at the events so far at this point of the story. It is more gruesome than I can ever imagine as I am virtually 'knowing' the events for the first time while watching the documentary. And Vietnam is so near to the Philippines. No wonder in those days, the Philippines occupy such a strategic and integral part for the US cause, with a huge naval base in Subic and an airbase in Clark at its disposal.

The incredible events that will impress in my mind for a long time:

- SV President Diem's oppression of the Buddhists. I cannot fathom why, as Buddhists are very traditional, reclusive, quiet, and peaceful. I have seen the picture of the monk burning himself in those days but I thought they were protesting about the civil war, but in reality it was due to the oppression of the government to them.

- Scenes of VC shooting at the American choppers with guns. And actually taking the choppers down.

- The land-trek of the NV forces through the jungles on foot, carrying disassembled weapons through the mountains and into enemy territory.

- An American soldier claiming that the NV soldiers that he had fought were the best he'd even seen, and that he'd take in 200 of these fighters if he were to go to another battle.

I can't wait to hit the last few episodes when the American ground troops were to swell to more than half a million men. After 3 episodes, there were only 3500 of them. Amazing.
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,351
5,461
2,810
Manila, Philippines
What I found interesting was that South Viet Nam after the Anericans left had the 5th largest army in the world

Yes Steve, about 1,500,000 while the NV and the VC combined to about 900,000. Amazing that a smaller force would defeat and conquer an enemy in enemy territory. Showing how the 'heart' of the fighters was more important that the size.
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,351
5,461
2,810
Manila, Philippines
As as I went into the 5th episode and saw how 'hungry' the NV people were to fight such that underweight registrants for the army had to put some rocks in their pockets just to be able to join the war, that is just an incredible amount of passion they had to win the war and reunite their country. And the notion of how fierce and die hard fighters they were, still firing their rifles at the plane when the bomb and exploded on them already - that reminded me suddenly at how tough they were when China decided to attack them in 1979, 4 years after the end of the war.

I remember 1979's war very well as my grandfather (he had very poor vision) was asking me each day to read the newspaper account of China's attack into Vietnam for causing the ethnic Chinese in Vietnam (Hoa Chinese) to flee in boats in what became the 'Boat People' exodus into South East Asia. This after China provided some 200,000 men and tons of ammunition to help the NVA in the VN War. And as the Chinese attacks went on, it was reported that the Chinese army were being outfought by the battle tested Vietnamese fighters, and after a while, China finally retreated from Vietnamese territory, with both sides claiming victory, or achieving their goals. And China then was also hurting from their puppet Khmer Rouge being overthrown by a Vietnam backed Cambodian leader.
 

Barry

Member Sponsor
Jan 7, 2012
273
54
1,220
Somewhere near Philadelphia, USA
The accompanying "The Vietnam War" book is also well worth getting and reading. The pictures are incredible. There are of course many more details that can be covered in print, and a few more personal stories told that I don't recall seeing in the TV documentary. The overall story is such a sad one from so many perspectives. It does make you wonder how much we've learned from this tumultuous time in our history.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,346
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Yes Steve, about 1,500,000 while the NV and the VC combined to about 900,000. Amazing that a smaller force would defeat and conquer an enemy in enemy territory. Showing how the 'heart' of the fighters was more important that the size.

Robert McNamara, Lyndon Johnson's and John Kennedy's Secretary of Defense, was significantly responsible for, and presided over, the U.S. troop build-up in Vietnam. He advocated, and succeeded in implementing, a statistical policy analysis approach to the Vietnam War.

McNamara estimated what he believed to be the maximum number of fatalities the North Vietnamese would be willing to suffer before surrendering. This was his war of attrition. He miscalculated.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
Robert McNamara, Lyndon Johnson's and John Kennedy's Secretary of Defense, was significantly responsible for, and presided over, the U.S. troop build-up in Vietnam. He advocated, and succeeded in implementing, a statistical policy analysis approach to the Vietnam War.

McNamara estimated what he believed to be the maximum number of fatalities the North Vietnamese would be willing to suffer before surrendering. This was his war of attrition. He miscalculated.

Indeed, that point was well exposed in one of the episodes.
One of the things that surprised me was the role that JFK had in the build up and expansion of the war.
Seemingly uncaring about any of the consequences....like I stated before, truly disgraceful.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,346
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Unlike the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor -- which was a valid pre-text for America entering the war -- I think the weight of the evidence has long suggested that the alleged North Vietnamese attack on U.S. Navy vessels in the Gulf of Tonkin was a fabricated pretext for a dramatic escalation of U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.

I’m not sure what y’all are hoping to learn from this documentary. The history and the facts have not changed. And, unfortunately, it was not really that complicated a situation.

If you believed in the “Domino Theory” that if one country succumbs to the evils of Communism then others are likely to fall as well, and if you believed in stopping the Communist menace on foreign shores, then you supported the war. McNamara believed in the Domino Theory and calculated that the war could be won by inflicting devastating losses on the North Vietnamese before American casualties would turn public opinion against the U.S. war effort. If you did not believe in this strategy for this reason then you were against the war.

What happened and why is just not very complicated.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
Unlike the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor -- which was a valid pre-text for America entering the war -- I think the weight of the evidence has long suggested that the alleged North Vietnamese attack on U.S. Navy vessels in the Gulf of Tonkin was a fabricated pretext for a dramatic escalation of U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.

I’m not sure what y’all are hoping to learn from this documentary. The history and the facts have not changed. And, unfortunately, it was not really that complicated a situation.

If you believed in the “Domino Theory” that if one country succumbs to the evils of Communism then others are likely to fall as well, and if you believed in stopping the Communist menace on foreign shores, then you supported the war. McNamara believed in the Domino Theory and calculated that the war could be won by inflicting devastating losses on the North Vietnamese before American casualties would turn public opinion against the U.S. war effort. If you did not believe in this strategy for this reason then you were against the war.

What happened and why is just not very complicated.


Ron, I don’t think anyone thinks that the situation was complicated. However, the documentary was illuminating in many ways...at least to most of the people that I have spoken to about it. The amount of hubris in all areas of the US leadership is what I think surprised most of those folks.
Add to that the dishonesty and lies that were foisted on the public at the time, along with the lack of concern for the loss of life, makes one wonder why many in the government were not held in contempt and prosecuted for war crimes.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,346
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
. . . why many in the government were not held in contempt and prosecuted for war crimes.

Ummm . . . because those concepts have nothing to do with the subject in issue.

But your point about hubris on the part of JFK’s “Whiz Kids” is correct.
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,351
5,461
2,810
Manila, Philippines
Unlike the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor -- which was a valid pre-text for America entering the war -- I think the weight of the evidence has long suggested that the alleged North Vietnamese attack on U.S. Navy vessels in the Gulf of Tonkin was a fabricated pretext for a dramatic escalation of U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.

I’m not sure what y’all are hoping to learn from this documentary. The history and the facts have not changed. And, unfortunately, it was not really that complicated a situation.

If you believed in the “Domino Theory” that if one country succumbs to the evils of Communism then others are likely to fall as well, and if you believed in stopping the Communist menace on foreign shores, then you supported the war. McNamara believed in the Domino Theory

For me, standing here in present day and looking back, I can understand why some people, in this case, the American leadership, believed in the Domino Theory. Soviet communism had 'tumbled' the China domino and China became 'red' in 1949, only 4 years after the end of WW2. And after that North Korea and North Vietnam followed, with tendencies to 'unify' their own countries into solid communist states. It was easy to think then that Laos and Cambodia would be red had South Vietnam fell. And it would be quite scary to look at a map where the north and south bordering countries of China would be a total red land mass, including China. The US allies in the area, namely, Taiwan, Japan, and the Philippines would be in uncomfortable situations then.
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,351
5,461
2,810
Manila, Philippines
Finally finished the last episodes of the 10 part series and the emotion after knowing the whole story is very hard to describe. Tears welled up in my eyes after seeing the 'naked napalm girl' running for her life, and so touching to see how people around her would save her and how she survived the burns and from my readings, ended up seeking political asylum in Canada after the fall of Saigon. And kudos to the directors and producers for objectively showing the atrocities of war on all sides and having those interviews will all those involved in the war to give their first hand accounts. The corruption in South Vietnam during the civil war reminded me of the same corruption of the US backed Nationalist Chinese warlord/president Chiang Kai Shek against the communist army and forces of Mao Tse Tung after WWII. The similarity is just amazing, with povery and hunger ultimately making the peasants/masses join the communist cause to fight the corrupt and inefficient capitalist armies, resulting in the ultimate defeat of the US backed governments - the Nationalist Chinese and the ARVN of SV.

I have a very close friend from grade school who escaped SV in 1968 to Manila and enrolled in my school and we became classmates and still remain in constant touch until now. I told him about the series and he is starting to watch it now. He escaped with a sister while the rest of the family stayed in SV. Later on, some more siblings escaped before the fall, and finally, the parents and his youngest sibling got out after the fall of Saigon. He told me we will have a long chat after he finishes the series.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing