$150,000 phono stage

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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Whilst I can never justify this - some people clearly can - perhaps the same people that buy silly price watches when your phone or a cheap lcd watch can do exactly the same for nothing.
In some ways the Phono Stage ought to perform better than another - a watch tells time - it can't do it better or worse - it can simply be prettier, and more convoluted at doing it. Before you ask I do have a good watch.

Yep. I know for sure I've no right to pass judgement on whoever chooses to buy this. I have a good watch too :)
 

ack

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May 6, 2010
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I'll be more disappointed if anyone were to claim they actually spent the time to read the review, even if out of curiosity
 

morricab

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Yep. I know for sure I've no right to pass judgement on whoever chooses to buy this. I have a good watch too :)

What is your definition of a "good watch"? One that tells time perfectly or one that cost a lot of money?

I mention this because watches and audio do not have a direct connection in terms of cost/value. It is well known that expensive watches actually perform their task of telling time in a far inferior manner to even the cheapest quartz watch...so the watch is in fact a small mechanical art object or jewelery piece, regardless of how we try to sell it to ourselves or others. That doesn't mean it is wrong to spend the money, but "good" becomes divorced from the actual function of the item. It's like saying a Picasso is good and a Jackson Pollack is not good. You can't do it in an absolute sense or even relative sense because art is so subjective (even more so than audio).

How is it different in Audio? Well as you obviously know, paying more IN GENERAL gets you a trend towards better sound...note I said trend. So, it is not like the watch situation where no amount of money spent on a mechanical watch will get you equal performance to a cheap Casio.

AN has priced this thing as they have for two reasons: 1) They believe it is the best sounding phonostage you can buy...I really think Peter Q believes this and his experience with many many loyal (cult) fans of the brand reinforce his belief he is on the right path for sound and 2) They use a lot of really expensive parts...although IMO their Silver/Nickel transformers, which make a big chunk of the parts cost, are horribly overpriced (when they were available for DIY...they no longer are) compared worthy competitors (by like 10X). Their philosophy also being that the ingredients are more important than the recipie...although they have some strong statements like all capacitors in the circuit path are bad (their L5 stuff is all trafo coupled) and such that guides their design so that not just any basic circuit will do. But yes, they are easy to copy...like (nearly) all SET tube circuits.

That said, having heard now their speakers many times at many levels...I cannot live with that sound. Their top amps are quite ok but their lower middle electronics and sources are not so great, again IMO.

Their pricing in audio is signaling that they think they make the best stuff...and will wipe the floor with the "Casios" of the audio world.
 

JackD201

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You're too literal Brad ;)
 

NorthStar

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I talked to Frank; he said they need a better enclosure.
Plus he said they need to lower the price to attract real customers instead of pro audio reviewers.

I said ok, I'll tell them Frank.
 

KeithR

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May 7, 2010
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What is your definition of a "good watch"? One that tells time perfectly or one that cost a lot of money?

I mention this because watches and audio do not have a direct connection in terms of cost/value. It is well known that expensive watches actually perform their task of telling time in a far inferior manner to even the cheapest quartz watch...so the watch is in fact a small mechanical art object or jewelry piece, regardless of how we try to sell it to ourselves or others.

I'd rather have a $150k PP perpetual chrono than this, for sure (which can take up to a year to make, all by hand). It would also increase in value over time, while this piece is worth 75k the day after you buy it.

I mean, this is some nice parts in a $100 case (x2) to amplify a phono signal (which don't forget, the requisite $20k SUT). I don't really find it in the same league as luxury items like PPs or jewelry, but to each their own. And on a technology basis, its hard to compare to a Porsche GT3.

Said another way - who has lusted over a phono stage?
 

Folsom

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Casios are better engineered than this phono. I'm not saying it sounds bad, I'm sure it doesn't, but as others say it is just a design from someone that they dressed up. There are at least a few parts no longer manufactured in it. And steel may look cheaper (and is) than fancy aluminum cases but it has special properties that aluminum does not so I wouldn't disregard the enclosure entirely as it may be purely what it is for sonic reasons.
 

RogerD

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microstrip

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I bet if you built this using Mundorf film and lytics, with matched Japanese resistors, silver wire and solder and improved the ground....it could sound just as good or better. I might use a Teflon or two. @ a small
fraction of the cost.

http://www.ankaudiokits.com/L5-Phono-Signature-Tube-Rectified-Tube-Output.html

My bet is that in a proper system, built around Audio Note values of sound quality, it will sound lousy compared to the original AN.

I have listened to a few pieces modified by DIY upgraders that just put the more expensive parts without any criterion. A complete disaster.

Why isn't everybody building the Dartzeel chinese copies sold at low cost at eBay? They could even improve the components and claim it sounds much better than the original!
 

RogerD

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My bet is that in a proper system, built around Audio Note values of sound quality, it will sound lousy compared to the original AN.

I have listened to a few pieces modified by DIY upgraders that just put the more expensive parts without any criterion. A complete disaster.

Why isn't everybody building the Dartzeel chinese copies sold at low cost at eBay? They could even improve the components and claim it sounds much better than the original!

Some can do better...IMHO
 

earlinarizona

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Jul 17, 2010
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A response from the designer of the Audio Note M9 RIAA.

Making Conscious Dreaming possible: the Audio Note M9 RIAA Signature

By: Audio Note UK | August 2018
Publisher’s note: Audio Note UK has graciously provided the following article detailing the conceptualization and design of the company’s M9 RIAA Signature phono stage.

The article is authored by Andy Grove, electronics designer of Audio Note UK.

Read the Audio Note M9 RIAA Signature Review, Part 1

The M9 was intended, from it’s very conception to represent the state of the art in vinyl replay, and, by that, I don’t mean academic performance such as reducing deviation from the RIAA curve to some ridiculously small amount, or cooling the whole thing in liquid helium to achieve a low noise figure.

No, the idea here was to create an instrument which would not only extract as much information as possible from the groove, but also portray that information in the most elegant, beautiful, artistic, musical way possible – even if it does involve liquid helium cooling…

The phono input stage comprises two SQ (Philips, Special Quality) E80F pentodes, one per channel. The E80F is quite electrically similar to the EF86 – designated as a low noise, low microphony valve especially designed for this type of service, except the E80F, some would claim, more successfully achieved those aims.

I chose to use a pentode over the cascode (can be viewed as a pseudo-pentode formed by two stacked triode sections) I would normally use, because I needed to connect the pentode anode direct (well via a coupling cap) into the RIAA network, rather than via a series resistor. I am using the pentode as a transconductance device (which means it outputs a current proportional to the input voltage), and need the extra headroom a pentode provides over a cascode at a given anode voltage.

E80F + direct connection to compensation network = energy

The EQ network itself is a departure from the norm. The norm being a RC network designed more or less according to Stan Lipshitz’s 1979 paper (which, incidentally, contains a mathematical error). There are other varieties, other means of achieving the RIAA compensation curve, such as the impedance matched LCR networks (like Tango EQ-600P), and the LR network by A. Likhnitsky which uses leakage inductance, created by magnetic shunts.

The M9s is different again; it is a symmetrical, high impedance, LCR network, in which the L is the pure leakage inductance between two coils in a specially wound transformer. The pentode (as a transconductance device) senses the input voltage, and drives a current into the network entry port, and, at the exit arrives the frequency compensated version. It’s a little bit like a V/I conversion then a frequency dependent I/V conversion, with amplification.

The L, the leakage inductance results from the imperfect coupling between two coils in a transformer, this is usually a problem as it causes ringing and high frequency rolloff. Here it’s deliberately magnified to cause a big, but controlled HF rolloff (according to RIAA curve).

All real components come with associated ‘parasitic’ components attached to them, for example, a capacitor will have parasitic inductance and resistance. All inductors have similar parasitics which tend to make their performance less than ideal. However, conceptually at least, leakage inductance is perfect – which makes it an ideal candidate for RIAA EQ, especially for the HF part of the curve.

The wire used is of course Audio Note’s own specially drawn and coated silver, and the core material is the absolute best of the best 80% class nickel alloy, specially heat treated for us, even the thickness of the laminations has been carefully arrived at.

After the compensation network is another stage of amplification, which can be a E80CC SQ double triode, or one of several versions of ECC81 or 12AT7 (in RIAA versions) which is an altogether different valve, and, here, chosen for its higher gain. Remember, this is a product which cost as much as a luxury car, and many go to customers with particular requirements, so we often make customisations to them.

In the regular M9 pre there would be a volume control, and another stage of amplification, but, in the RIAA version, there is a single Telefunken 6463 double triode valve for line purposes, which is why we sometimes fit a ECC81 further back in the chain – to give more gain and drive if required.

The 6463 delivers its output via another special Audio Note designed and in-house wound silver wired transformer. In effect, the output stage is a little like a small SE triode power amp.

The output transformer itself has a naturally balanced output formed by passing the secondary through the entire transformer twice, and we provide both balanced and SE connectors. It is possible to make bespoke modifications to the transformer to, for example, to provide another partially isolated winding for a subwoofer. This is of course only relevent to the full pre.

This transformer is (of course) silver wound, by hand, and uses a 55% nickel iron C Core. This material is a unusual and difficult to process, but, can offer properties somewhere between that of the 50% class materials and the 80% class. We worked through many iterations of heat treatment with our foundry partners to arrive at what is a unique, audio specific core material. It’s difficult to use, due to its relatively low saturation flux, but it offers unprecedented transparency and tonal colour.

The signal circuitry just about fills the entire chassis, and we would like to keep a little spare for (on the full pre version) such things as balanced input transformers, so the power supplies are housed in a separate chassis – which of course helps with hum and noise.

These PSUs are based on those used in the M3, M5, M6 and M8 preamps, and the RIAAs and DACs based on those platforms, which are in turn inspired by the Galahad circuitry used in the M10 and M10 Sig.

There is one supply for the phono stage proper and one for line, each with a 6X5 rectifier, a 5651 reference valve and a ECL82 triode power pentode, for the actual voltage stabilisation.

Strictly speaking, I prefer the term stabiliser here, because the purpose is to hold the supply voltage constant, to shield the analogue circuitry from hum and mains fluctuations. This is not done with high feedback and the aim of creating an extremely low output impedance. Instead, there is a feed-forward/feedback bridge, similar to the Galahad, which gives very high ripple rejection, but without gripping the following circuitry like an iron fist.

In audio, there is too much talk of control, like it’s a fear of letting go, the fear of falling asleep because dreaming is the loss of rational thought. But, we have to let go to enjoy music. Composing, playing and listening to music is a kind of conscious dreaming, a flow experience, whatever we care to compare it to.

The M9 is not about control, or parameters, or thinking, it’s about music, whatever that is.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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I'd rather have a $150k PP perpetual chrono than this, for sure (which can take up to a year to make, all by hand). It would also increase in value over time, while this piece is worth 75k the day after you buy it.

I mean, this is some nice parts in a $100 case (x2) to amplify a phono signal (which don't forget, the requisite $20k SUT). I don't really find it in the same league as luxury items like PPs or jewelry, but to each their own. And on a technology basis, its hard to compare to a Porsche GT3.

Said another way - who has lusted over a phono stage?

Well, since all the things you mentioned all do something totally different I don't see how anyone can place a relative value except to say, perhaps, that all luxury items are by definition overpriced...in order to create the air of exclusivity for their owners. (ok, maybe the Porsche is not overpriced relatively speaking).

The watch you mention though has even less in terms of value of the materials put into it so I am not sure why the materials in the phonostage are less deserving. They all have a reason to be there to make the whole.

I think if you love audio but don't care for cars or watches then the AN makes as much sense as any of them. From an audio perspective, some could argue the AN is like a GT3 in terms of its function...making analog sound good.

I know many audiophiles who lust after phonostages...especially when they hear what a really good one can do to your analog.

That said, I don't argue that it is not overpriced, it is, but not worse than a lot of luxury items...it is the world we live in. Can I get one that sounds better for less? Probably, but maybe not for much less money.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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dan31

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Jul 22, 2010
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Just like the AF0 turntable and the Wilson Wamm CS. These products are for those who have the ability to purchase and the passion to commit these funds. If the AN phono did not sound great I doubt Fred would have purchased the unit. I’m happy products like these are designed and put into production. Anyone who has upgraded their phonostage knows what a vital role these components play.
 

JackD201

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I've come to know Fred as a straight shooting, very normal guy. My take away from his posts (not review) is that this unit is one that flatters the music making as he says "even poor recordings sound better". That was my impression of the FM Acoustics top preamp too. I know the FM is colored but it is colored so nicely, I don't really care everytime I get a chance to listen through it. I only appreciated the final presentations. If this is what Fred has got, I really can't blame the guy for going all in here. Coincidentally, these units are priced similarly.

Thanks for making the connection Dan. I hadn't realized that the author was Fred. If I'm not mistaken, Fred reviewed this unit as an owner.
 

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