10 sota digital rigs

KeithR · Sep 2, 2018

With your current speakers I would want slightly warm of center SS that doubles all the way down since Thiels hang out in 2-ohm land often.

So D’Agostino or Luxman monos would be my decision. The rest aren’t ideal imo.

As far as source, only know MSB not TotalDac.

morricab · Sep 3, 2018

KeithR said:
With your current speakers I would want slightly warm of center SS that doubles all the way down since Thiels hang out in 2-ohm land often.

So D’Agostino or Luxman monos would be my decision. The rest aren’t ideal imo.

As far as source, only know MSB not TotalDac.

We have driven them with as little as 18 watts successfully. They drop to 2 ohms only in a small part of the impedance curve...they clearly don't hang out there often as witnessed by our success with modestly powered tube amps.

Kingsrule · Sep 3, 2018

SOTA implies the best a manufacturer has to offer.

So none of the systems u are proposing as SOTA qualify.

KeithR · Sep 3, 2018

morricab said:
We have driven them with as little as 18 watts successfully. They drop to 2 ohms only in a small part of the impedance curve...they clearly don't hang out there often as witnessed by our success with modestly powered tube amps.

depends on what you mean by success i guess-

https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker-measurements

"The sensitivity is usefully higher than average, which is a good thing considering that the CS3.7's impedance remains between 2 and 3 ohms over much of the audioband (fig.1), and that there is a demanding combination of 3.8 ohms and –40° capacitive phase angle at 60Hz."

morricab · Sep 3, 2018

KeithR said:
depends on what you mean by success i guess-

https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker-measurements

"The sensitivity is usefully higher than average, which is a good thing considering that the CS3.7's impedance remains between 2 and 3 ohms over much of the audioband (fig.1), and that there is a demanding combination of 3.8 ohms and –40° capacitive phase angle at 60Hz."

Yes, but the relative uniformity of it means that amps with high source impedance can still deliver pretty flat frequency response. Succsessful means loud as we wanted to listen without audible strain, which was probably peaks in the upper 90s and average levels in low to mid 80s. I can state that we basically expected really good tube amps in the 30+ watt range to be just fine...and they were but what surprised us is when we tried an 18 watt PP amp of cheap chinese origin (Puresound A30 in triode Class A) and it did a really good job of driving the Thiels at levels beyond where I normally listen (but for my colleague are normal). A VAC 30/30 and a couple different 25-30 watt SETs sounded positively authoritative...more so than the 500 watt McIntosh MC501s that my colleague had for a long time. Not all tube amps fared well though: My JJ-322 20 watt SET sounded weak and surprisingly given the power rating the Octave MRE-130 monos with super black boxes sounded strained and glassy.

christoph · Sep 3, 2018

Thieliste said:
Hi guys, i have decided to put down on paper 10 SOTA rigs for streaming hires files from Tidal, Qobuz and NAS from brands that i already auditioned and some that i yet have to discover.
I didn't put any speakers, you are free to suggest the ones you would like to hear with those rigs, mine are Thiel CS 3.7 .
Please vote for the 3 rigs that in your opinion have the best performance/price ratio.

RIG 1 : Aries Cerat Impera II Signature
Aries Cerat Concero 65 Signature
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1-server

RIG 2 : Dan d'Agostino M400 monoblocks
MSB Reference DAC + preamp module + renderer

RIG 3 : Ypsilon PST 100 mk2
Ypsilon Hyperion monoblocks
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1 server

RIG 4 : Dartzeel NHB-18NS
Dartzeel NHB-108 model 2
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1 server

RIG 5 : Dartzeel NHB-18 NS
KR Audio Kronzilla DX monoblocks
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1 server

RIG 6 : CH Precision C1 + streaming board
CH Precision X1 PSU
CH Precision M1 stereo amp

RIG 7 : Ayre KXR-Twenty
Ayre MXR-Twenty monoblocks
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1 server

RIG 8 : Nagra Classic preamp
Nagra MPS PSU
Luxman M900U monoblocks
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1 server

RIG 9 : VAC Master line stage
Karan KA-S 600 stereo amp
MSB Reference DAC + renderer

RIG 10 : Boulder 2110 preamp
Boulder 2160 stereo amp
MSB Reference DAC + renderer

Enjoy

I'm missing Lampizator DACs

Thieliste · Sep 3, 2018

KeithR said:
depends on what you mean by success i guess-

https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker-measurements

"The sensitivity is usefully higher than average, which is a good thing considering that the CS3.7's impedance remains between 2 and 3 ohms over much of the audioband (fig.1), and that there is a demanding combination of 3.8 ohms and –40° capacitive phase angle at 60Hz."

If i decide to go tubes the only amps i'm considering are the AC Concero 65 or the KR Audio Kronzilla DX monos, therefore power will not be a problem with both of them.
On the SS side d'Agostino M400 and Lux M900u are good alternatives for sure.
When i purchased my 3.7s i was surprise how well they sounded with a little Jadis I-35 integrated.

Thieliste · Sep 3, 2018

christoph said:
I'm missing Lampizator DACs

Well i will come listen to yours if you want

rsorren1 · Sep 3, 2018

Thieliste said:
I really like CH but perhaps i'm afraid of having some kind of glare in the treble region on aluminum tweeters like the one i have on my CS 3.7s
Am i wrong to think that ?
For a 90K rig i'm not ready to live with such imperfections.

I’m not at all familiar with your speakers. What I can tell you is that the CH D1/C1/X1/CH-Link/clock cards, digital front-end has zero glare in my system. None. It is the best digital I’ve heard in my system. If you continue to consider purchasing CH components in your system, you would have to hear them in your system first.

heihei · Sep 4, 2018

I'd also question the lack of Lampi in the list - to my ears a GG2 was far superior to the CH Precision C1, and I'm a fan of CH.

morricab · Sep 4, 2018

Thieliste said:
If i decide to go tubes the only amps i'm considering are the AC Concero 65 or the KR Audio Kronzilla DX monos, therefore power will not be a problem with both of them.
On the SS side d'Agostino M400 and Lux M900u are good alternatives for sure.
When i purchased my 3.7s i was surprise how well they sounded with a little Jadis I-35 integrated.

Yes, the decieve a lot of people into thinking only beastly SS will work...the fact that the impedance is quite even means that smaller tube amps still have a chance if the impedance alone doesn't choke them.

KeithR · Sep 4, 2018

morricab said:
Yes, but the relative uniformity of it means that amps with high source impedance can still deliver pretty flat frequency response. Succsessful means loud as we wanted to listen without audible strain, which was probably peaks in the upper 90s and average levels in low to mid 80s. I can state that we basically expected really good tube amps in the 30+ watt range to be just fine...and they were but what surprised us is when we tried an 18 watt PP amp of cheap chinese origin (Puresound A30 in triode Class A) and it did a really good job of driving the Thiels at levels beyond where I normally listen (but for my colleague are normal). A VAC 30/30 and a couple different 25-30 watt SETs sounded positively authoritative...more so than the 500 watt McIntosh MC501s that my colleague had for a long time. Not all tube amps fared well though: My JJ-322 20 watt SET sounded weak and surprisingly given the power rating the Octave MRE-130 monos with super black boxes sounded strained and glassy.

You might be right Brad, but my general feeling is that you prefer these tube amps on Thiel because it tames the top octave - which has always been rather bright and adds some midrange color. I think if you heard good SS, that might be much better than the alternatives you tried and provide much needed drive and dynamics. (that said, I know my east coast dealer used Vac 140s in the 90s with them). I think in tube land, I'd run to CAT to drive them personally as they are designed for 2-ohm loads.

Funny you mention 501s as Jim Thiel apparently hated McIntosh. He used Krell and Bryston of course, which was analytical sound in every CES or show I heard him demo them with. 3.6s, 7.2s, etc. I also heard Ayre on the new 3.7s at another show years ago and found the sound sterile.

I've always admired Thiel's creations and his design goals. Was tempted to get 2.4s for my smaller room at the time.

morricab · Sep 4, 2018

KeithR said:
You might be right Brad, but my general feeling is that you prefer these tube amps on Thiel because it tames the top octave - which has always been rather bright and adds some midrange color. I think if you heard good SS, that might be much better than the alternatives you tried and provide much needed drive and dynamics. (that said, I know my east coast dealer used Vac 140s in the 90s with them). I think in tube land, I'd run to CAT to drive them personally as they are designed for 2-ohm loads.

Funny you mention 501s as Jim Thiel apparently hated McIntosh. He used Krell and Bryston of course, which was analytical sound in every CES or show I heard him demo them with. 3.6s, 7.2s, etc. I also heard Ayre on the new 3.7s at another show years ago and found the sound sterile.

I've always admired Thiel's creations and his design goals. Was tempted to get 2.4s for my smaller room at the time.

We tried a lot of amps on those Thiels, not just the ones I have mentioned...some were hybrid (like Lamm and NAT) and some pure SS (Like Pass and Spectral).

One of the worst combos I ever heard with Thiels were CS7.2s with big Soulution monos.

Thieliste · Sep 4, 2018

I will probably make a stop in Geneva to visit Hervé Delétraz and audition his latest NHB-108 model 2.

Thieliste · Sep 9, 2018

What do you guys think of Luxman M900u in mono config driven direct by MSB Reference DAC + Renderer ?

Thieliste · Sep 30, 2018

Ok guys i have narrowed down to 3 rigs one of which i will be buiding :

Tube rig : Aries Cerat Impera ll Ref preamp
Aries Cerat Concero 65 monos
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1-server

SS rig : CH Precision L1 preamp
CH Precision X1 PSU
CH Precision M1 stereo or A1.5 monos
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1-server

Hybrid rig : Ypsilon PST 100 mk2 preamp
Ypsilon Aelius 2 monos
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1-server

The Totaldac Twelve mk2 will be my digital front end in any case.

Down Under · Sep 30, 2018

I have not heard the Aries,but with your speakers I would choose the Ypsilon components over the CH by a whisker.

Bobbi · Sep 30, 2018

Have you had a opportunity to listen Aries Cerat yet?

Thieliste said:
Ok guys i have narrowed down to 3 rigs one of which i will be buiding :

Tube rig : Aries Cerat Impera ll Ref preamp
Aries Cerat Concero 65 monos
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1-server

SS rig : CH Precision L1 preamp
CH Precision X1 PSU
CH Precision M1 stereo or A1.5 monos
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1-server

Hybrid rig : Ypsilon PST 100 mk2 preamp
Ypsilon Aelius 2 monos
Totaldac d1-Twelve mk2 + d1-server

The Totaldac Twelve mk2 will be my digital front end in any case.

Thieliste · Oct 1, 2018

Bobbi said:
Have you had a opportunity to listen Aries Cerat yet?

Yes at the Munich show 2017.
But on the 25th of october i will be able to listen to an Aries Cerat system on the same speakers i own.

christoph · Oct 1, 2018

Hello Thieliste

You should NOT overlook the Lampizator DACs because they are absolutely fabulous.

When you visit my friend Michael (Impera preamp and Concero 65 monoamps) pretty soon, you can also come to my place for a listen because at the moment, I have a demo unit of the majestic Pacific DAC at home

So I can show you a compare between the already excellent Golden Gate DAC and the awe inspiring Pacific DAC (source is the Lampizator SuperKomputer) in my system with Aries Cerat Incito preamp and Kronzilla SX poweramp into hORNS Universum Speakers.

10 sota digital rigs

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