Common excuses that non-audiophiles give for why they do not purchase high end audio systems?

Gregadd said:

It is rare for me remember anyone not immediately recognizing the superiority of a high end system. The problem is getting someone to engage in music listening as a primary activity. Unless it is a party or being utilized as background music they have a very short attention span. Even if I were to make a system as a gift (which I have done) they only listen as background music. Consequently they never make the commitment that audiophiles make.

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Empirical Audio said:

I have been in a lot of high-end audio salons, particularly before the advent of home theater. I have also been attending and exhibiting at high-end trade-shows for 15 years.

I have learned a few things from this experience:

1) Most people attribute better sound quality to the speakers and believe the components don't make much of a difference
2) Many audiophiles value the looks of their components as much as the sound quality
3) Many audiophiles, reviewers and salon owners believe they have very resolving, live systems and they don't
4) Very few audiophiles actually assemble systems that are live sounding with great imaging and soundstage
5) Most audiophiles are fairly technical, at least those that have digital playback systems
6) Every system is at a different level in the climb to audio nirvana, so it is virtually impossible to make valid comparisons without having 2 systems in the same room
7) Some audiophiles are obsessed with critical listening. Others have reached a level that they are happy with, so they just enjoy the music. I'm personally the latter, although I have to continue doing the former because I'm in the Biz. And I admit it, I like making improvements. It's like practicing golf and hitting better shots each time. Keeps you coming back.

In order to motivate people to be new high-end customers, I believe several ingredients are required:

1) A threshold of significant sound quality improvement over their iPhone that does not break the bank
2) A demonstration of really compelling live sound at a show, friends house or in a salon that demonstrates deep and wide imaging and superb focus, as well as minimizing fatigue. This goes beyond detail rendering. This is what gives the music life.
3) A simplicity of the system that does not require an audio engineering degree to install, maintain and for the wife and kids to use
4) A system that sounds compelling in a normal room with furniture, windows and doors rather than a room specifically designed for audio with acoustic treatments

I cannot think of any system I have ever heard in a salon that meets these criteria. Maybe in one or two reviewers homes, at least the compelling sound quality part. The vast majority of systems at shows are fatiguing, gimmicky sounding or they do not deliver the imaging and liveness.

Lets face it, in order to achieve the kind of sound quality that gets people to open their eyes and their checkbooks and not use their iPhone for music is not easily attained. We all work very hard to reach our particular level of nirvana. Some of get there and others will listen critically forever....

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

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JackD201 said:

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Everybody loves music. The question is, how many people these days actually make the time to do nothing but listen? My observation is that all other "excuses" are secondary.

Let's take a look at what those of us that do have in common despite growing up in different generations. Almost all of us were exposed to good music early and have said music as integral parts of our good memories. Almost all of us have some level of technical knowledge about reproduction before entering the hobby in earnest. All of us value music that much more than the next guy that we want to hear it played back better. When watching live acts, we want the better seats. We want to attend concerts in the better venues if we had the choice. This yearning for the better seems intrinsic too. We appear to simply want better experiences all around. Vacations, meals, social gatherings. The next question is why? Most of us were or are in careers that demand high levels of mental exertion that taxes stamina and general mental well being. Stress. Law, Medicine, Finance, Engineering, Education, Science, Operations, Administration come top of mind. It is the arts we turn to to keep us balanced. We're the guys who come home mentally but not necessarily physically tired. Those guys often don't have to deal with thoughts swirling in their skulls about what happened that day compounded with thoughts of what will happen the next day and the day after that. To top it all of we usually aren't the big bosses. We're the right hand men, the mechanics, the good soldiers expected to perform day in and day out answerable to those above but more importantly those below. This by default is a small subset of the general population.

Yet, I do believe that even if a person fits less squarely in this basic profile, there is no reason one cannot have quality music as part of his or her decompression options. The entry point needs to be easy. A gentle learning curve, a system that delivers but shouldn't be intimidating to operate and shouldn't dominate the domestic environ. More so now in the advent of streaming.

We've admittedly been focused on putting together statement level systems. Heck, our business is mainly turnkey systems from acoustics, power, mechanical and of course system integration. This however caters to those already swimming in the deep waters. If we in the distribution and retail sides of the industry want to expand the base, it is incumbent upon us to begin showing what we can deliver no holds barred but also that we can deliver great results in small packages.

In a sense we need to go back to the golden age where there were much fewer boxes, wires and had speakers that didn't need to be pulled out way into common spaces. If we can't get people to sit down and enjoy with a small system, the only people scaling up will be one time trophy hunters.

The small system in my opinion is the foundation. Small speakers and integrated amps that share genetics with the halo products. The chances for WAF are greatly increased and objections from neighbors greatly decreased.

I've added two more intergrated amplifiers to our lineup in the CH I1 and the Constellation Inspiration Integrated 1.0 to go with our bevy of SET and PP integrateds from KR. I am also working with Leif and Damon of Von Schweikert on a VR series floorstander that will join the entry level Vr-22, the larger E3 and E3 SE. I love two way monitors but only the already initiated really want to deal with stands. The newbies are afraid their speakers might be knocked over by the kids or the pets. Obviously we know this is easily dealt with but really can we blame them for having these reservations? No not really.

Lastly I think the demos need to be done with restraint on our parts. Yes we are enthusiastic, yes there is so much information we can share but have so little time. We need to make the demos stress free by putting a glass in one hand, the remote in the other and talking a whole lot less. After all, it is stress itself that we are trying to relieve. At the end of the day, what we really want to demonstrate is the experience our clients could have any time that they want in their own homes, nothing more. We want them walking away saying. Hell, that beats a friggin' prescription. LOL

Rant.....DONE.

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Gregadd said:

Thanks Jack.

I am a grumpy old man disappointed with the path younger people have taken. I became acquainted with quality music during the glory days of FM radio. DJs" were given a freehand during non-prime time. Todays youth have access to almost unlimited music that is either free or very inexpensive. Headphones(earbuds) would appear to be a good entry point. I shop around and some distortion kevels are horrendous. I still think the marriage of vision and audio is essential. hHere I live everyone has their own personal listening device. That is probablyy not going to change.

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twitch said:

Greg, I'm a 'happy' old man that also became acquainted with great music a long time ago. What drives me nuts today is when people (at times myself) keep knocking our youth........... who the hell do think raised these kids ??? or shall I say, 'didn't raise them' !!

I have two sons , the oldest of which will be turning 40, both know, understand and appreciate good music. I consider myself lucky, fortunate and thankful ......... I did my job !

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JackD201 said:

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Everybody loves music. The question is, how many people these days actually make the time to do nothing but listen? My observation is that all other "excuses" are secondary.

Let's take a look at what those of us that do have in common despite growing up in different generations. Almost all of us were exposed to good music early and have said music as integral parts of our good memories. Almost all of us have some level of technical knowledge about reproduction before entering the hobby in earnest. All of us value music that much more than the next guy that we want to hear it played back better. When watching live acts, we want the better seats. We want to attend concerts in the better venues if we had the choice. This yearning for the better seems intrinsic too. We appear to simply want better experiences all around. Vacations, meals, social gatherings. The next question is why? Most of us were or are in careers that demand high levels of mental exertion that taxes stamina and general mental well being. Stress. Law, Medicine, Finance, Engineering, Education, Science, Operations, Administration come top of mind. It is the arts we turn to to keep us balanced. We're the guys who come home mentally but not necessarily physically tired. Those guys often don't have to deal with thoughts swirling in their skulls about what happened that day compounded with thoughts of what will happen the next day and the day after that. To top it all of we usually aren't the big bosses. We're the right hand men, the mechanics, the good soldiers expected to perform day in and day out answerable to those above but more importantly those below. This by default is a small subset of the general population.

Yet, I do believe that even if a person fits less squarely in this basic profile, there is no reason one cannot have quality music as part of his or her decompression options. The entry point needs to be easy. A gentle learning curve, a system that delivers but shouldn't be intimidating to operate and shouldn't dominate the domestic environ. More so now in the advent of streaming.

We've admittedly been focused on putting together statement level systems. Heck, our business is mainly turnkey systems from acoustics, power, mechanical and of course system integration. This however caters to those already swimming in the deep waters. If we in the distribution and retail sides of the industry want to expand the base, it is incumbent upon us to begin showing what we can deliver no holds barred but also that we can deliver great results in small packages.

In a sense we need to go back to the golden age where there were much fewer boxes, wires and had speakers that didn't need to be pulled out way into common spaces. If we can't get people to sit down and enjoy with a small system, the only people scaling up will be one time trophy hunters.

The small system in my opinion is the foundation. Small speakers and integrated amps that share genetics with the halo products. The chances for WAF are greatly increased and objections from neighbors greatly decreased.

I've added two more intergrated amplifiers to our lineup in the CH I1 and the Constellation Inspiration Integrated 1.0 to go with our bevy of SET and PP integrateds from KR. I am also working with Leif and Damon of Von Schweikert on a VR series floorstander that will join the entry level Vr-22, the larger E3 and E3 SE. I love two way monitors but only the already initiated really want to deal with stands. The newbies are afraid their speakers might be knocked over by the kids or the pets. Obviously we know this is easily dealt with but really can we blame them for having these reservations? No not really.

Lastly I think the demos need to be done with restraint on our parts. Yes we are enthusiastic, yes there is so much information we can share but have so little time. We need to make the demos stress free by putting a glass in one hand, the remote in the other and talking a whole lot less. After all, it is stress itself that we are trying to relieve. At the end of the day, what we really want to demonstrate is the experience our clients could have any time that they want in their own homes, nothing more. We want them walking away saying. Hell, that beats a friggin' prescription. LOL

Rant.....DONE.

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ddk said:

What we're forgetting Jack is the death of music and audio stores, where can the younger people get their exposure and taste of high end today? Growing up there were record stores of all sizes that we could go to and browse for new music. Then there where all those wonderful midfi dealers and department stores selling TV's, consoles, all in ones, receivers, separates etc. from Denon, Sony, Akai, Sansui, Technics, Tandberg, McIntosh, etc., etc., etc. that got our young juices going, where can young people go to now, Apple store? Is there anything less appealing than a digital file? That's the sad reality today and this vinyl revival is now mostly predicated on one piece players with $hitty DtoAs sold alongside computers, other bluetooth devices. The culture just isn't there the way it was for our age group to see, touch and feel the music media and equipment that eventually led us to high end. The very few younger people I deal with these day, ie in their 30's to early 40's got their exposure either through a family member or a close friend who's in the hobby.

david

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Gregadd said:

I'm glad you're happy and made it to be old. I love the kids. But as you know knocking the youth dates back to Socrates. As a matter of fact, I am sure Adam and Eve lamented what would become of the kids when Cain killed Abel.

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the sound of Tao said:

Yes, as usual Jack, head of nail beautifully hit! I’m also think more and more about going simple and getting the box count down but still keeping the experience of the sound and music up. If we are going to remain relevant scaling back while keeping the engagement with the music is going to be even more valuable an approach in system setup as simply we are likely to be moving to a future of living more within much smaller and possibly more shared spaces.

Even the most uncultured and barbaric within my much loved family still are amazed at how the music sounds through the Maggies, but none of them would make the funds or room for them because they also like to do other stuff with their time and resources. However my sister in law bought my Harbeth 30.1s off me because even though that was for them a giant investment in spend on hifi they are completely converted and play music more now than ever. Musical, room friendly two way Harby with a simple integrated amp and a turntable and dac with laptop and they use it every day. I go there and still love those speakers regardless of the minimal gear driving them. I did pass on some decent signal cables as well because her partner is a mechanical engineer so I knew there’d be no effort spent on that weird non science audio tweak lol.

Accessible hi end is something we should explore a bit more ourselves sometimes.

Will look forward to your thoughts on how the integrated Ch and the constellation integrated fare. Though I am partial to a good preamp so maybe I’m a lost cause.

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Kal Rubinson said:

OK but I seem to recall similar proposals every few years since the '70s. The major reason is that music just isn't that important to most people who can afford high end audio and recently technology makes it too easy to get music anywhere/anytime in quality that is "good enough" for most.

Good luck.

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DevAAudio said:

Mr. Rubinson... Thank you for your comments and for all you do and have done for the industry! I’ll share my opinions further....

Music is important to everyone. . . . . Those of us that have a passion for audio and listening systems need to be welcoming and encouraging to others that know very little about the industry. Anyone can enjoy a HiFi system. Until someone has experienced a great system they don’t know what they are missing!

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GaryProtein said:

That describes the situation perfectly.




Music is NOT important to everyone and owning a highly resolving system isn't important to most people either, which isn't to say they don't recognize that it sounds better, but they just don't care and would rather spend $30,000 to $300,000 on a car than a stereo system.

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valkyrie said:

The real reason - at least in my opinion - that audio is no longer particularly relevant to the population. Simple - in 1979 I went to Pacific Stereo in Long Beach, California, dropped $1100 and walked out with a very fine sounding system; AR-10pi, Marantz 2265B receiver, a Pioneer turntable and Shure VR-15. That $1100 is now equivalent to $4,000 (approximately) in today's currency.

That particular system was FULL RANGE - which vanishingly few "high end" systems can claim - at least not until you get into the $50,000 speaker range. The receiver - all 65 watts per channel - was truly golden toned - and had tone controls plus an AM/FM receiver, a preamp and a phono amp. The Shure VR-15? That thing tracked at a gram and was astonishingly revealing - at least with vinyl of the era. No the VR-15 did not provide a rising high end but then again who wants to introduce a non-linearity? NO POWER CORDS (they were all captive in that era), no ridiculous interconnects - Radio Shack was more than sufficient, no footers, no Mook dots, no tweaks at all. Took about 30 minutes to setup, the old lady liked it and it sounded heavenly. Would sit you down in your seat and entrance you with its beautiful sounds. A rich sounding - no sonic x-rays provided - was engaging. Transcendent in its fullness, musicality and providing the sweetness of good music.

So go out and buy a so-called "high end" system in this era for $4,000. Do. You will return with a cheap integrated - say a Yammy (not bad as I bought one for my son), some smallish book shelf speakers - see Andrew Jones for whatever he is selling in that price bracket - BUT THOSE SPEAKERS WILL NOT BE FULL RANGE. Won't even get close to 40 Hz much less 30 Hz (my definition of full range - flat to 32 Hz). The $4,000 will in the current era system be nice enough - but not as good as what was available THIRTY NINE YEARS AGO. Plus if you go to a "salon" you will have to more than likely endure some insufferable snob who will have a hard time bothering with such a trivial expenditure.

That is what happened. The "better" equipment became ridiculously priced, the sales force is focused on a few "big" sales - as are the boutique manufacturers - far easier to make ten $100,000 speakers than to build a thousand $1000 speakers. Therefore the high end - and its pernicious policies - have rendered the larger public irrelevant to their purposes.

In consequence the larger public shuns the "high end". Viewing it as a hierarchical hobby pursued by a bunch of rich old white men who have more money than sense. They go on with their ear buds and Apple Music (bit of an oxymoron there - Apple and Music). The audiophile pursuit vanishes. Brought on by its most zealous practitioners. IRONY.

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