Do you have any technical data that can support such claim? I do not expect that the common high-efficiency inverters are noise and distortion free and or extremely stable.
The Time Has Come .....I've gone solar
- Thread starter Steve Williams
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Do you have any technical data that can support such claim? I do not expect that the common high-efficiency inverters are noise and distortion free and or extremely stable.
Only based on what I hear in systems of people who use solar. I don’t hear astrotoy commenting on problems and I would bet based on the age of his system,he isn’t using the current microinverters
What are you basing your premise upon
IMHO, as always it will depend on the quality of one's mains supply and on the implementation of the system. Most of the time people will be listening when there is no sun power, so they will be powered from batteries. They would get exactly the same sound quality if the batteries were charged by the mains.
My energy is stored in my grid. Excessive production is shunted to my electrical provider for banking. I actually listen mostly in the days as the cost of energy from 4-9 PM is tier 3 and most expensive at $0.45 per kWh
You're doing exactly what I said! Creating energy and selling it back to the power company under whatever financial scheme they offer and you're not allowed to go off the grid either, so where's my misinformation?
I said scheme not scam, the question was is your house going to be connected and supplied from the panels or does it all go to the power company and you continue to receive all your electricity from the grid? The inverters are still all digital and come with noisy industrial power supplies!
david
David
I will never sell my banked energy to the electric company. They bank it for me. I can sell it to them if I want but at 3 cents per kWh. Yes I am on their grid but the hope and expectation is that it will never exceed $11/month which is the charge imposed to connect to their grid
As to the micro inverters I have zero data other than listening to systems of people I know who also have solar. I have not heard any noise or distortion.
FWIW I spoke directly to the chief engineer at Sun Power re your concerns (which BTW I don't take lightly).
Here is his immediate answer with more to follow on Monday
"I can tell you that I never had any negative feedback in regards to sound. I've seen 55 panels go on a sound engineers home with studio and soundboards in the home without a problem. But I can get more info for you on Monday"
I will never sell my banked energy to the electric company. They bank it for me. I can sell it to them if I want but at 3 cents per kWh. Yes I am on their grid but the hope and expectation is that it will never exceed $11/month which is the charge imposed to connect to their grid
As to the micro inverters I have zero data other than listening to systems of people I know who also have solar. I have not heard any noise or distortion.
FWIW I spoke directly to the chief engineer at Sun Power re your concerns (which BTW I don't take lightly).
Here is his immediate answer with more to follow on Monday
"I can tell you that I never had any negative feedback in regards to sound. I've seen 55 panels go on a sound engineers home with studio and soundboards in the home without a problem. But I can get more info for you on Monday"
I’ve heard my next door neighbor’s system both before and after he installed solar and it sounded the same to my ears
I don't know what to say Steve we tried to do same two years ago again with guaranteed supposed increased reliability of panels and similar promises from the hardware manufacturer about their inverters' noise quality so I got them to send us 3 inverters to try before committing which they did and they were all far noisier than the grid.
david
Would you ask the chief engineer at Sun Power about his opinion on your speaker cables?
Can you tell us what is the model of microinverter you and the people you refer are using? Then we could build our StromTanks for little money. I have considered this possibility in the past, as I could easily have a 115V /60 Hz line to operate US audio equipment, but manufacturers told me I would loose sound quality.
I’ve got my fingers crossed David
I would think that 55 panels on the roof of a recording engineer’s home with no adverse effect is reassuring
Two members in this thread have their own solar system and I haven’t heard either of them comment in an adverse way.
You do have a strange grid where you live David. I know you have done many things to improve it so as they say, “Caveat emptor”
I also know you are very sensitive to digital sound, more so than most people. Ron is the same and he will be visiting soon. Hopefully the system will be installed by the time of his visit to get his opinion.
Francisco
You lost me in your first paragraph about my cables
As for the type of inverter boxes others used I have no idea
You lost me in your first paragraph about my cables
As for the type of inverter boxes others used I have no idea
Just to point that electrical engineers working with mains devices usually are insensitive to our high-end voodoo. They have other concerns.
But I suppose you know what is the model of the inverter you are using? What is the battery nominal capacity?
Not talking about digital sound, it's noise from a digital power supply very different thing. Recording engineer means nothing when you don't know him or his system and they're usually not after the same reproduction qualities that we are. I'm saying not to go ahead just visit friends with solar and see if you like their sound too or even better if you can get the the company to set up a test run for you.
david
Good for you Steve. I have also installed 40 panels on my rooftop since the beginning of this year. The panels are from Canadian Solar. The panels are less efficient than yours. They are 270W per panel. The DC are then converted to 3 phases AC by German Sunny Portal inverter. I can only sell my solar electricity to the power company from October as my government only recently passes the legislation to ask the power companies to buy solar energy at premium price. At the moment, my excess solar energy is supplied for free to neighbours. I have also considered battery option since there is a mismatch of power generation and power consumption. But it is not worth it as I can sell solar energy at premium price from October. My estimation is around 5 years to recover the cost.
To have one more data point, I don't hear any degradation of sound quality. My listening session is from morning to evening. I don't find any increase in my system performance in the evenings.
To have one more data point, I don't hear any degradation of sound quality. My listening session is from morning to evening. I don't find any increase in my system performance in the evenings.
Excellent sustainable move Steve, sounds like hopefully both economically and environmentally good return on investment. To get the sustainability trifecta ensuring no downsides with SROI (social return on investment) would be the go. That is making sure your music (social value) is as good or hopefully better than ever.
I do remember reading a thread on an audio board some years ago where potential impacts of the inverters in PV (ie solar) systems was discussed in some depth.
From memory a group of the guys that used to listen to each other’s systems regularly (a bit like the Boston guys here) noticed in one session that the system they were all familiar with that often really delivered the music and magic just didn’t do it at all sudden.
After some head scratching the lights went on for the guy who owned the setup (stressful moment I’d imagine having your mates around and then your pride and joy goes cactus on you) and so he went out of the room and when he came back a few minutes later put the tunes back on and voila the system was delivering the music as magic again. Apparently he had just installed a solar hot water system and so he wondered if that was the issue so he went out and without saying what he was doing just switched off the inverter.
So the guys tried the experiment a few more times on and off with the solar inverter and it was decided to be the culprit. Zero clue if this was double blind test but they probably were drinking anyway so some level of cloud over the science here and if then this is just another bit of audiophile folklore that took hold ie inverters are bad for the audio setup.
From memory as the discussion progressed a few salient points came to light. The first of which was that the quality and kind of noise generated varies quite a bit between different quality inverters and that cheaper hot water systems tended to utilise cheaper inverters with possibly greater attendant THD and RFI noise being fed back into the system.
So here assuming the kind of the level of research that Steve would do plus his drive towards doing it always in the best way that his PV system would also be highest grade and that the inverter would likely be of similarly high spec.
Just floating another possibility for some of the variances in experience with an inverter making noise an in audio system might also potentially be the way the system itself is set up.
When I had the Anima horns here for a few months I found the various system tweaks that I found so critical with the 20.7 Maggies just didn’t seem as obviously necessary for the horns. Lesser cables, lesser electrical and mechanical isolation was needed to get what the horns could deliver than was necessary for the ribbons.
I have put this down to the difference in perceptual experiences created and their specific ingredients. In short, the ribbon panels do sonics really well and then require sources that do music naturally and convincingly to then deliver sound and music and so rely on a different mix of resolutions than did the Anima horns setup with 300B amps and preamp used and where the focus on resolution was essentially/fundamentally different. With the few horns I tried then the key feature for me was the uninterrupted experience of the flow of the music as the ultimate and essential ingredient of the horn SET experience.
However I’d imagine the kind of highly shielded cable solutions that your setup runs Steve might obviate the kinds of potential noises that an inverter might add especially the kind of PV setup you have with likely a better engineered inverter.
DDK’s setup has never been as reliant on tweaks and highly engineered ancillaries beyond the core components (the source with the amps) to make it’s magic so the cables are simpler and likely less shielded so these might just be more vulnerable to a significant noise issue that an inverter in the circuit might bring and so his very different experience with the outcome of trialling an inverter.
One other point made in the thread by one of the posters was that the quality that they noticed when comparing with and without inverter switched on was that it wasn’t so much an overtly noticeable sonic issue but rather a loss of connection to flow in the experience which is more a holistic appreciation and someone even commented that a system that trades in its capacity to portray natural flow (like perhaps a horn SET system) might be most vulnerable to this as the flow is one of their most essential qualities.
All anecdotal, all subjective, so just floating these as potentials for discussion rather than suggesting any of these are the answers though. My next setup of horns and SET will be added here shortly but I’ll be going instant gas water heater over solar hot water just in case.
I do remember reading a thread on an audio board some years ago where potential impacts of the inverters in PV (ie solar) systems was discussed in some depth.
From memory a group of the guys that used to listen to each other’s systems regularly (a bit like the Boston guys here) noticed in one session that the system they were all familiar with that often really delivered the music and magic just didn’t do it at all sudden.
After some head scratching the lights went on for the guy who owned the setup (stressful moment I’d imagine having your mates around and then your pride and joy goes cactus on you) and so he went out of the room and when he came back a few minutes later put the tunes back on and voila the system was delivering the music as magic again. Apparently he had just installed a solar hot water system and so he wondered if that was the issue so he went out and without saying what he was doing just switched off the inverter.
So the guys tried the experiment a few more times on and off with the solar inverter and it was decided to be the culprit. Zero clue if this was double blind test but they probably were drinking anyway so some level of cloud over the science here and if then this is just another bit of audiophile folklore that took hold ie inverters are bad for the audio setup.
From memory as the discussion progressed a few salient points came to light. The first of which was that the quality and kind of noise generated varies quite a bit between different quality inverters and that cheaper hot water systems tended to utilise cheaper inverters with possibly greater attendant THD and RFI noise being fed back into the system.
So here assuming the kind of the level of research that Steve would do plus his drive towards doing it always in the best way that his PV system would also be highest grade and that the inverter would likely be of similarly high spec.
Just floating another possibility for some of the variances in experience with an inverter making noise an in audio system might also potentially be the way the system itself is set up.
When I had the Anima horns here for a few months I found the various system tweaks that I found so critical with the 20.7 Maggies just didn’t seem as obviously necessary for the horns. Lesser cables, lesser electrical and mechanical isolation was needed to get what the horns could deliver than was necessary for the ribbons.
I have put this down to the difference in perceptual experiences created and their specific ingredients. In short, the ribbon panels do sonics really well and then require sources that do music naturally and convincingly to then deliver sound and music and so rely on a different mix of resolutions than did the Anima horns setup with 300B amps and preamp used and where the focus on resolution was essentially/fundamentally different. With the few horns I tried then the key feature for me was the uninterrupted experience of the flow of the music as the ultimate and essential ingredient of the horn SET experience.
However I’d imagine the kind of highly shielded cable solutions that your setup runs Steve might obviate the kinds of potential noises that an inverter might add especially the kind of PV setup you have with likely a better engineered inverter.
DDK’s setup has never been as reliant on tweaks and highly engineered ancillaries beyond the core components (the source with the amps) to make it’s magic so the cables are simpler and likely less shielded so these might just be more vulnerable to a significant noise issue that an inverter in the circuit might bring and so his very different experience with the outcome of trialling an inverter.
One other point made in the thread by one of the posters was that the quality that they noticed when comparing with and without inverter switched on was that it wasn’t so much an overtly noticeable sonic issue but rather a loss of connection to flow in the experience which is more a holistic appreciation and someone even commented that a system that trades in its capacity to portray natural flow (like perhaps a horn SET system) might be most vulnerable to this as the flow is one of their most essential qualities.
All anecdotal, all subjective, so just floating these as potentials for discussion rather than suggesting any of these are the answers though. My next setup of horns and SET will be added here shortly but I’ll be going instant gas water heater over solar hot water just in case.
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So far the only thing I know about the Sun Power Inverter is that it is built to system spec specific for Sun Power
I'll know more on Monday
Hi adyc thanks for the extra data point as everything I have heard so far in sound systems powered by the sun is that there is no adverse effect although there are some reports that the sound is actually improved
I'll know more on Monday
Hi adyc thanks for the extra data point as everything I have heard so far in sound systems powered by the sun is that there is no adverse effect although there are some reports that the sound is actually improved
I’ll be going instant gas water heater over solar gas hot water just in case.
I use a Noritz tankless water heater.
SOT......as for solar water heater wouldn't you say this is a different entity than solar electric power for your house and that the inverters are different
Worst case scenario if the solar power for the rig does not work out.....just hook up only the system to the grid. You would have your own dedicated transformer for nothing else but this. If it comes down to it.
Tom
Tom
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