DB Protractor DBP-10

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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I have a question about the DBP-10. The instructions have you use the white card with the -15/15 degree scale and points A and B in conjunction with the clear card. However, the back of the white card also has points A and B with the grids.

Is the purpose of using the clear card and the scale to help one figure out how much to adjust the cartridge for each iteration? If so, do you get just as good an alignment using the back of the white card?

I guess I am wondering if I can just use the grids with points A and B.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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I have a question about the DBP-10. The instructions have you use the white card with the -15/15 degree scale and points A and B in conjunction with the clear card. However, the back of the white card also has points A and B with the grids.

Is the purpose of using the clear card and the scale to help one figure out how much to adjust the cartridge for each iteration? If so, do you get just as good an alignment using the back of the white card?

I guess I am wondering if I can just use the grids with points A and B.

Just use the grid with point A and B. I don’t use that other card
 

Tango

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Just use the grid with point A and B. I don’t use that other card

Same here. Only use the one with null point A and B. Sound great as is.

Tang
 

jeff1225

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Jan 29, 2012
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I've found that you only have to use the clear card if you have a slotted headshell and a fixed tonearm mounting. With the SME sliding base, you just use the one card.

DDK is the expert on this device, I'm assuming that he trained his American Sound clients Christian and Tang to use the one card.
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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I've found that you only have to use the clear card if you have a slotted headshell and a fixed tonearm mounting. With the SME sliding base, you just use the one card.

Even with a slotted head shell I don't see the need for the other card. The SME sliding base is the equivalent of a slotted head shell. The geometry should be the same.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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The clear gauge is for measuring distortion, you can use it to check your setup with the SME or any other arm some of which don't give you any means for proper alignment or the it's geometry requires some compromise. For alignment setup you just need the white card with the graph and A & B null points.

david
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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Thanks David and everyone for your helpful comments.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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I have a question about the DBP-10. The instructions have you use the white card with the -15/15 degree scale and points A and B in conjunction with the clear card. However, the back of the white card also has points A and B with the grids.

Is the purpose of using the clear card and the scale to help one figure out how much to adjust the cartridge for each iteration? If so, do you get just as good an alignment using the back of the white card?

I guess I am wondering if I can just use the grids with points A and B.

IMHO the DBP-10 is meant to be used when you need to rotate the cartridge. What are the exact A and B distances from the center of the spindle? You should use it only if they are the same as in the SME protractor or want to use an alternative geometry.

Theoretically we could use only the A point to align a SME - if A is correct B should also be in the proper alignment. Older SME protractors had a single point. In a real world with small errors we can play to split errors between A and B! :)
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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IMHO the DBP-10 is meant to be used when you need to rotate the cartridge. What are the exact A and B distances from the center of the spindle? You should use it only if they are the same as in the SME protractor or want to use an alternative geometry.

Theoretically we could use only the A point to align a SME - if A is correct B should also be in the proper alignment. Older SME protractors had a single point. In a real world with small errors we can play to split errors between A and B! :)

I didn’t think that the DB protractor was only for SME arms.
 

microstrip

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I didn’t think that the DB protractor was only for SME arms.

But probably it was designed for a defined tonearm length according to a defined alignment. It seems to me the DB-10 is a tool designed to help the user, not a calibrator.
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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But probably it was designed for a defined tonearm length according to a defined alignment. It seems to me the DB-10 is a tool designed to help the user, not a calibrator.

I am using it to align a cartridge on my vintage Denon DP-59L. I had been using the MFSL Geo disc. I think this should do a better job.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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But probably it was designed for a defined tonearm length according to a defined alignment. It seems to me the DB-10 is a tool designed to help the user, not a calibrator.

No, it's a Baerwald (what you want for the SME) protractor for any length arm of course you can use it for Stevenson or Loefgren too just add the null points on the graph with a marker. You have another gauge to help you setup tonearms that fall outside any of these standard parameters too. The DB-10 is just a better easier to use tool than many of the other protractors I used in the past.

david
 

miniguy

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Dec 18, 2013
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Even with a slotted head shell I don't see the need for the other card. The SME sliding base is the equivalent of a slotted head shell. The geometry should be the same.

Not so. With a slotted headshell, any re-positioning of the cartridge results in a change in effective length and thus offset angle. Just moving the arm in a sliding base only changes overhang and P2S distance. Effective length remains the same.
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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Not so. With a slotted headshell, any re-positioning of the cartridge results in a change in effective length and thus offset angle. Just moving the arm in a sliding base only changes overhang and P2S distance. Effective length remains the same.

Thanks for the clarification and correction.
 

microstrip

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No, it's a Baerwald (what you want for the SME) protractor for any length arm of course you can use it for Stevenson or Loefgren too just add the null points on the graph with a marker. You have another gauge to help you setup tonearms that fall outside any of these standard parameters too. The DB-10 is just a better easier to use tool than many of the other protractors I used in the past.

david

Thanks - I knew that the 3012-R is Baerwald - but some other SME's have the Stevenson alignment. It was in this sense I was telling that, using the points supplied it was not a reference. In fact the Baerwald points are not independent of tonearm length - but the differences from a 9" to a 12" arm are negligible , just around .2mm.

But my main point, just aimed at users of SME 3012R, not people using other tonearms or wanting to use slotted headshells, was why getting all this DB-10 system if we will not need it for a SME 3012-R? Isn't the SME protractor more than enough?
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Thanks - I knew that the 3012-R is Baerwald - but some other SME's have the Stevenson alignment. It was in this sense I was telling that, using the points supplied it was not a reference. In fact the Baerwald points are not independent of tonearm length - but the differences from a 9" to a 12" arm are negligible , just around .2mm.

But my main point, just aimed at users of SME 3012R, not people using other tonearms or wanting to use slotted headshells, was why getting all this DB-10 system if we will not need it for a SME 3012-R? Isn't the SME protractor more than enough?

The protractor is often missing and isn't as easy as the DB Systems one to read. It's about the quality of the tool :)!

Of course you can use it with many other tonearms too and has tools similar to the one you used to figure out if you have the correct overhang for your arm+cart combination.

david
 

microstrip

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The protractor is often missing and isn't as easy as the DB Systems one to read. It's about the quality of the tool :)!

15 pounds including shipping will bring us a band new one with the SME logo! And, in this subjective hobby, my myopic eyes prefer the SME sharp and clear regular lines to those of the DB-10 ... :)
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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15 pounds including shipping will bring us a band new one with the SME logo! And, in this subjective hobby, my myopic eyes prefer the SME sharp and clear regular lines to those of the DB-10 ... :)

Whatever floats your boat but don't knock it before you try :)!

david
 

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