I quoted what Morricab stated in his post...and then he has the temerity to call me a Troll for quoting his post and questioning his illogic....States MODERN horns from the dawn of stereo, LOL. IME, There is plenty of information available and NECESSARY for the reproduction to sound realistic below 40Hz. Much less available above 20khz.
So, you are saying that a speaker has to go down to 20hz to sound realistic?? Since most horns don't go that low then , they too can't sound realistic? If that is not what you are saying then what, exactly are you saying?? This is now WAY off your OP.
I consider modern to be technology still used regularly today and largely still implemented the same way.
So, you are saying that a speaker has to go down to 20hz to sound realistic?? Since most horns don't go that low then , they too can't sound realistic? If that is not what you are saying then what, exactly are you saying?? This is now WAY off your OP.
I consider modern to be technology still used regularly today and largely still implemented the same way.
You got it right the first time! Look at every single thread he's involved in and you'll see the pattern.
We both know that 20hz advertised by many companies simply isn't true, there's physics and their cabinets simply don't have the volume to create a true 20hz note which is way different from a 20 cycle test tone in room measurement.
So, you are saying that a speaker has to go down to 20hz to sound realistic?? Since most horns don't go that low then , they too can't sound realistic? If that is not what you are saying then what, exactly are you saying?? This is now WAY off your OP.
I consider modern to be technology still used regularly today and largely still implemented the same way.
I liked a JBL Everest model I heard in NYC once with tubes and vinyl. I did not like an Altec that was completely incoherent. It made a solo violin sound like the strings and fingers were three feet in front of me but the lower registers and wooden body were fifteen feet apart, completely separate from the rest. Very weird experience. The owner came to my system and heard the same recording: Starker/Bach cello suites. He just sat there for two sides, saying nothing and then proclaimed, "So that is what it is supposed to sound like." That was with my old mini monitors.
I have little experience with horns and few dealers around here carry them, so it requires a bit of effort to seek them out, hear them, and learn enough to decide. At least that is my experience. I am open about the typology and would like to learn more. I believe in their potential but wonder about their extension. There has been little discussion about how high and low they go. I've seen super tweeters and cone subs with some models but then I wonder about integration.
Do horn owners not hear a lack of extension, if they do, does it not matter to them? Do horn owners listen to a more limited selection of music. I notice that Tang's videos are all small scale jazz with vocal. How about Holst's Planets on horns or a string quartet? Or Rock? What music do ddk and Jeffrey listen to?
And what about solid state electronics and digital sources? Horn guys tend to prefer tubes and vinyl. Why is that?
Just curious. I've been accused of not getting out enough and hearing alternatives. Perhaps they are right.
Hi Peter, I am going to be using all digital crossovers with a nearly full range horn system.
This is a bit unusual since it's not "horns for the sake of being horns" but instead for the controlled directivity pattern of the large midrange/treble horn. They have zero horn sound whatsoever and the measured response is essentially "perfect". The huge dynamic range they are capable is a nice benefit.
At the same time I do plan to use lower power amps, I have no preference between tubes or solid state. The best amps I've ever heard are FirstWatt SIT-1 so that is what I am more than likely going with for the mid/treble horn unless I hear a better SET amp which would have to be custom built to reach that level.
FWIW the best midrange I have heard on a speaker is my ESL57, and the horn system I am transitioning to captures that '57 presence perfectly.
I am about 3/4 classical listener with a strong preference for the titans of classical- Sviatoslav Richter, Emil Gilels, Vladimir Horowitz, David Oistrakh, Grigory Sokolov and so on. So basically every genre of classical ranging from baroque to post romantic. Currently heavily into Roberto Szidon playing Scriabin.
Peter... The JBL Everest... At least the k2 66000, the m2 series, are all crap. DIY made by JBL drivers can be excellent. There are many Altecs, many can be bad. You need to listen to many horns, and yes, you won't like many.
Peter... The JBL Everest... At least the k2 66000, the m2 series, are all crap. DIY made by JBL drivers can be excellent. There are many Altecs, many can be bad. You need to listen to many horns, and yes, you won't like many.
I have heard many many horns..and none are to my taste. The basic design element is not really going to change, IOW, a horn is a horn. Sounds simplistic, but I can always hear their failings...to others, YMMV.
I have heard many many horns..and none are to my taste. The basic design element is not really going to change, IOW, a horn is a horn. Sounds simplistic, but I can always hear their failings...to others, YMMV.
Yes but when we say we like horns we are referring to the few good ones, which, admittedly, are rare, or expensive due to exclusivity, or both. They are unbeatable by rest of hifi. Fact, not imo
Yes but when we say we like horns we are referring to the few good ones, which, admittedly, are rare, or expensive due to exclusivity, or both. They are unbeatable by rest of hifi. Fact, not imo
Your facts may not be other people's facts...something to perhaps ponder? The 'fact' that you are referring to, is a 'preference'. I'm not sure why you and others cannot see that
Your facts may not be other people's facts...something to perhaps ponder? The 'fact' that you are referring to, is a 'preference'. I'm not sure why you and others cannot see that
Preference happens after we have the same data points. If both of as have heard Lyra and koetsu, and if I prefer Lyra and you prefer koetsu despite agreeing on the sonic attributes of both, that is a preference. If one has not heard both carts, there is no preference to discuss
Completely agree. No system can every reproduce a small band let alone an orchestra. All we can hope to achieve is a facsimile of the actual instruments and event. And that can be a lot of fun.
Well, I for one was enamored with with the Altec A7 / Ampex electronics 3 channel sound as experienced at the local cinemas and in San Francisco when I was a kid. The sound was dynamic and clear as a bell. My first visit to a Peninsula audio store was a treat as he had a JBL Paragon and Klipschorns to listen to. My first set of speakers were a pair of JBL L55 and later would purchase a pair of L200’s. I still have both after close to 45 years plus.
I always wanted a set of horns and now I’m building a hybrid 4 way with all digital processing and about 10k to 14k worth of SS power which is mostly for the bass and sub frequencies. The horns will use about 200 watts each.
I expect the sound will be exceptional .... not a horn loaded bottom end, but at least the mid range and up to 20k hz will be horn loaded. I am the odd man out as in my world, I can make SS amps sing like birds...
Thanks Davey....this thread brought back a lot of good memories
Btw I believe a Klean digital rig can approach the sound of 35mm film. FWIW
Preference happens after we have the same data points. If both of as have heard Lyra and koetsu, and if I prefer Lyra and you prefer koetsu despite agreeing on the sonic attributes of both, that is a preference. If one has not heard both carts, there is no preference to discuss
Yes, except I am responding to your generic post about horns..and that they are, at least in your opinion,"unbeatable by rest of hi fi" which is an all-encompassing statement. Then you state "Fact, not IMO"---whose fact is that, yours? Please re-read what i posted above..it still applies.
Ohhh, you mean your Swiss cheese of a hypothesis??
Besides, if the best sound some guys ever heard was an Altec theater system and they want that at home, how do you know they aren't right? Did you hear that system to judge?
YOUR bias is stamped large on this thread.
Please list the SOTA horn systems you have heard within the last few years...
Horns are not all created equal anymore than box or planar speakers.
Ohhh, you mean your Swiss cheese of a hypothesis??
Besides, if the best sound some guys ever heard was an Altec theater system and they want that at home, how do you know they aren't right? Did you hear that system to judge?
YOUR bias is stamped large on this thread.
Please list the SOTA horn systems you have heard within the last few years...
Horns are not all created equal anymore than box or planar speakers.
Ohhh, you mean your Swiss cheese of a hypothesis??
Besides, if the best sound some guys ever heard was an Altec theater system and they want that at home, how do you know they aren't right? Did you hear that system to judge?
YOUR bias is stamped large on this thread.
Please list the SOTA horn systems you have heard within the last few years...
Horns are not all created equal anymore than box or planar speakers.
I asked him this question three times when he was hard-trolling the "Horn appreciation thread" with random anti-horn posts. He absolutely refused to answer the question. He was asked to leave the Horn appreciation thread so he decided to start his own thread about why he think we like horns.
I asked him this question three times when he was hard-trolling the "Horn appreciation thread" with random anti-horn posts. He absolutely refused to answer the question. He was asked to leave the Horn appreciation thread so he decided to start his own thread about why he think we like horns.
“Not all horns are created equal.” How true! I hated horns with a passion, for decades, until I heard a system that used a Western Electric 713b compression driver in a WE 32A horn. That setup sounds simply wonderful and there are no “horn” colorations at all. That experience led me on a 10 year journey through various horn systems to my present speakers which use a YL Acoustic (Yoshimura Labs) driver and horn for the midrange and a vintage Jensen 15” woofer in a large open baffle with a Electro-Voice T350 horn tweeter on top. The crossover components and the internal wiring were all selected after many trials. The result is some of the most realistic sound I have ever heard.
Suggesting a VOTT is the standard for judging all horns is preposterous. The VOTT is the poster child for what gave horns a bad reputation in the first place.
