Best possible tonearm for Linn LP12

booker

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2017
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108
Hi,
I wonder what you guys think what could be ideal tonearm for Linn LP12 with Keel on it. I am using Linn LP12 Klimax with no Ekos SE and wonder about the best possible non-Linn tonearm currently in production for it. I value the tonearm possibilities of azimuth adjustment so cannot really consider Ekos SE. In your experience with LP12 what arm you think is ideal for it given the constraints of that TT w/Keel. Currently I use Audio Origami PU7 which I like it very much but wonder if there is anything better at the moment or different in a way that while preserving dynamics it can also give more detail to the sound. I use VdH Colibri Signature KOA cartridge. I was thinking about Kuzma 4P 9”, SME 309 or V or Graham 2.2. They may be excluded simply because of Keel or geometry constraints so I would appreciate your feedback.
 

BruceD

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Dec 13, 2013
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In Production?--- Kuzma 4p 9( Maybe too heavy?) Schroeder, Thales ---- certainly not any Grahams.

In my Lp12 days the finest sounding Arm with total synergy outside of the Linn ilk-- was the Breuer 5A--I had three of them including the 8C.

If you can locate a good used version with proven provenance you will not be disappointed.

Good Luck,

BruceD
 

BruceD

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Dec 13, 2013
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Unless you get an arm with the Linn mount you can't use your Keel.

Hmmm-- Well I never knew that one--I gather the Arm Pillar Holding throat is one size fits all ---- Linn Arms only:mad:

BD
 

pcosta

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2010
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Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Unless there is a company out there making an arm with the same effective length and pillar diameter of the Ekos your options are very limited to the Ekos. I haven't had a Linn for over fifteen years now. That was probably one of my reasons for moving away from it. Back then pre Keel people could drill a new arm boards, and mount anything that could fit length wise on so long as it wasn't too heavy for the LP12 suspension. Sonic improvements are still being debated today;)
 

booker

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2017
21
4
108
In terms of Graham in their manual for 2.1/2.2 there is picture of Linn LP12 with Graham on it. Question is does it fit Keel. In terms of Kuzma 4P 9” presumably it can fit Keel but indeed the weight of over 900g may be suspension issue. I can’t find anywhere information on Graham 2.2 weight but I f it is around Kuzma’s weight then Kuzma may fit the bill. According to manual SME V weight is 720g so it is good. However I would have to compromise Keel for Kore with SME mounting hole. There is also AMG 9W2 that Art Dudley reviewed in its LP12.
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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La Jolla, Calif USA
In terms of Graham in their manual for 2.1/2.2 there is picture of Linn LP12 with Graham on it. Question is does it fit Keel. In terms of Kuzma 4P 9” presumably it can fit Keel but indeed the weight of over 900g may be suspension issue. I can’t find anywhere information on Graham 2.2 weight but I f it is around Kuzma’s weight then Kuzma may fit the bill. According to manual SME V weight is 720g so it is good. However I would have to compromise Keel for Kore with SME mounting hole. There is also AMG 9W2 that Art Dudley reviewed in its LP12.


Booker, as a fellow Linnie, I have asked the exact same question that you posted in your OP. I asked this question on the Linn forum. To which I was basically castigated,as in the minds of the followers...there simply is nothing better than an Ekos Se...and to think so is blasphemy. However, like you, I question the lack of adjustability, the poor tonearm wiring and other issues with the Ekos Se. While my experience with the arm isn’t as great as some other Linnie’s...I do wonder if there is a better alternative.
Your Johnnie arm would be on my short list. Unfortuntately, as you well know, the dear old fruit box doesn’t like most of the great arms out there...she’s a real persnickety little bugger.
So, what’s left...very little. The Kuzma is too heavy, as you surmised. The Graham is too, although closer, but I think the geometry is what the lil darling dislikes. The new Tiger Paw Javelin might be a contender, although I haven’t heard it. The Vertere arm might be a contender, but same thing, haven’t heard it. The AMG might be a contender...haven’t heard it..and some are saying it’s pretty meh. The SME...no...lil bugger doesn’t like it.

Right now, if I remember, you can acquire a Keel with SME cutout, Naim Aro cut out ( works with the Javelin) and lastly...Linn cut out, lol...
Why do we like the old fruit box so much...:eek:

Interesting thread...
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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Oh, I forgot...there's the option that I currently use..and like.

The WTA 'Black' arm. ( hard to source). This arm works with my modified Kore subchassis.. ( my set up guy had to do a little modding to the Linn cut out)
This arm features a liquid bearing, hence no bearing noise, adjustable VTA, VTF and..Azimuth! Allows for a number of different phono cabling options...I am currently using Nordost Tyr...a very good phono cable. Plus, the weight works for the lil' bugger's suspension. Having AB'ed this arm against a friends similar set-up with an Ekos 2, we both easily preferred the WTA.

An option that might work for you. Not sure IF it is better than your PU7??? But an option.
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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Indeed the Tiger Paw Javelin might be the solution, however, I am unsure if it would actually be a step up over the Origami PU7??
Most people on the Linn forum seem to think that the Javelin is not as great as the Ekos SE, even though it incorporates more adjustability.

According to many Linnie’s, there simply is no better arm available than the Ekos SE...which while this may be true, is possibly the major limiting factor with the whole turntable platform....or not?
In any case, I can certainly see why others have gone in different directions and away from the LP12...which is really a shame.
IMO, it could, at least at the present time, be a great table in search of a synergistically commensurate arm...which maybe doesn’t exist at this time.??
 

booker

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2017
21
4
108
Quite sad conclusion but this may be true. Anyway I just asked Linn about maximum weight LP12 suspension can handle. I read somewhere that in the past people mounted tonearms above 1000g on it and it worked. We shall see.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
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La Jolla, Calif USA
Quite sad conclusion but this may be true. Anyway I just asked Linn about maximum weight LP12 suspension can handle. I read somewhere that in the past people mounted tonearms above 1000g on it and it worked. We shall see.

While the old fruit box might be able to accommodate a tonearm up to a certain weight, the question will be whether she sounds good with that tonearm. As we both know, she is VERY picky when it comes to giving off her best...and doesn't like much in the way of arms that aren't Linn sourced on her back. A friend of mine once had a Graham 2.2 mounted on her, she wasn't playing ball.:(
 

booker

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2017
21
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108
I’ve got response from Linn that they do not know the suspension limits as they have not tested heavier arms.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
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La Jolla, Calif USA
I’ve got response from Linn that they do not know the suspension limits as they have not tested heavier arms.

Nice diplomacy on their part, LOL.

They probably are fully aware that the old fruit box is so picky that it could drive them all nuts if they were to try and test other arms...so why not have the consumer do it instead, LOL.

BTW, I would ask you where you think your Johnnie arm is letting you down?
 

booker

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2017
21
4
108
It’s not that. I really like PU7. So far the best tonearm for me. I had 3 Linn arms before: Basic, Ittok VII, Ittok VIII, and I like PU7 better. Also it has azimuth adjustment that is essential when aligning my VdH Colibri. The thing is that I wonder if this is it - the end of the road for tonearms on my LP12 or not. If this is it then I may start looking at other options such as new TT. One constant for me at this stage would be VdH Colibri.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
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La Jolla, Calif USA
It’s not that. I really like PU7. So far the best tonearm for me. I had 3 Linn arms before: Basic, Ittok VII, Ittok VIII, and I like PU7 better. Also it has azimuth adjustment that is essential when aligning my VdH Colibri. The thing is that I wonder if this is it - the end of the road for tonearms on my LP12 or not. If this is it then I may start looking at other options such as new TT. One constant for me at this stage would be VdH Colibri.


Booker, on the other forum when I posted a thread about the importance of Azimuth adjustment and asked why the ‘best’ Linn arm doesn’t include this...I was told the following..( with considerable insistancy and some amount of frustration with my OP, lol):
The Ekos Se doesn’t need to include Azimuth adjustment, because only faulty cartridges from the factory don’t have their stylus aligned in a correct perpendicular manner! As such, adding another connection or adjustment would interfere with the arms rigidity.

Now on the face of it this seems like a crazy point of view, however, on some reflection I actually wonder if that is a very valid point! Therefore, why are you so concerned about your Colibri cartridge vs. other MC’s in this regard....isn’t the build accuracy sufficient to not have to concern oneself with Azimuth adjustments?

Just curious as to why you believe in the requirement for Azimuth adjustment..and I suspect it is for a very good reason.
OTOH, could it be that Van Den Hul’s Build quality suffers from some lack of QC...as the other Linnie basically insisted.?
 
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booker

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2017
21
4
108
No. Colibri is very sensitive to anything and small changes in azimuth, SRA, VTF or antiskate are easily audible. I need to have the tools to control it. Also other people starting with Michael Fremer do azimuth setting to optimize the sound and Colibri is not the only cart they use.
 
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DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
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La Jolla, Calif USA
No. Colibri is very sensible to anything and small changes in azimuth, SRA, VTF or antiskate are easily audible. I need to have the tools to control it. Also other people starting with Michael Fremer do azimuth setting to optimize the sound and Colibri is not the only cart they use.

Colibri is indeed very sensible, and sometimes she is even sensitive...as in this particular instance.:D:rolleyes:
 

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