Zero Distortion: Allnic, Aesthetix, Magic Q7 mk2, Alieno, loads of carts, Vyger, Kodo Beat

bonzo75 · Aug 6, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
I’m a little confused. In your report it seemed like tube rolling switched component preferences, and combinations of component preferences. It makes more sense to me that rolling tubes in amplifiers, and then swapping amplifiers, should result in bigger sonic differences then tube rolling within a single amplifier.

Maybe i wrote about the rolls in too much detail and it got confusing. The Psvane lowered quality of the system, and Lyra sounded less good, kiseki better. With the RK 300b the Lyra sounded much better. Lyra also sounded equally good with the other valves, but the drop in performance was clear with Psvane.

Reasons for aesthetix sounding better had to do with a different step up.

gian60 · Aug 6, 2018

Thanks Ked
Your report are always very interesting

tima · Aug 6, 2018

bonzo75 said:
Yes on 3 box Eclipse - will update my report to mention that. Opposite of flow is music coming in a stop start fashion. Think of a good LP vs a bad CD. Good SET horn systems have the highest flow (for some readers, IMO, but IMO fact )
...

Thanks for that. I tend to associate 'flow' mostly with a musician performance characteristic or state that is achieved. 'He's in the flow.' A state of emotional connection with the music such that one isn't thinking about how to play the notes or what is coming next, realizing a kind of effortless skill. You used the word quite a few times - x has better flow than y, the flow of z won out. I took these not as a characteristic of some combination of equipment, rather as that combination giving you a more emotional, an easier connection with what you heard. Perhaps its a limbic thing. E.G. what you say of SET horn systems I might say of Lamm gear.

Lagonda · Aug 6, 2018

Nice report Ked, thank you ! Did you take out the Subs and keep them out on the second day ? Maybe part of the improvement was the so-called “Tang effect”. Any compares with production arms ?
The Vyger seems to have the production arm fitted. Did the conversion of the Vyger eliminate the air-bearing ? How did the overall system compare to Mikes ?

bonzo75 · Aug 6, 2018

Lagonda said:
Nice report Ked, thank you ! Did you take out the Subs and keep them out on the second day ? Maybe part of the improvement was the so-called “Tang effect”. Any compares with production arms ?
The Vyger seems to have the production arm fitted. Did the conversion of the Vyger eliminate the air-bearing ? How did the overall system compare to Mikes ?

The system improvement was better even with the subs on, and when we took them out things became clearer.

On a side note, the Subs I have seen subs work best was when Marty set up his big JL Gotham subs with room correction. Generally, like Steve mentioned with his system I prefer them off.

In multichannel, I have heard some superb sub implementations by those who do datasat implementations, they will have 4 subs around the room working flawlessly. Check with Mark Seaton he might know more. But they use correction.

The AG trio subs seem to work but they use correction too.

If you want to stay all analog and not use DRC, you will probably need a full integrated speaker. Though there can be some excellent sub set ups, I haven't made an effort to seek out sub implementations..

The sub implementation in this system has to be managed. They might need to be retuned with every change in gear and the Alieno valves. For comparing, I preferred to leave them out so as not have the set up, positive or negative, influence the sound.

The linear tracker you see on the Vyger is not the Vyger LT but he replaced the arm with his own using the linear tracker system. I was unable to compare his arms to mainstream arms. But they seem to suit all carts and the owner says are better. He has also made them to have the ultimate flexibility in set up... Change azimuth, VTA, etc.

He had the Anna set on the LT. I decided not to compare that because it would confuse the compares I was having with other arms and carts. Also listening to Anna on Beethoven's 9th made me yearn to go back to Mike's... possibly the best moment in audio was listening to it on his GFS, and his Durand GFS made the other Durand Anna sound broken on that track. We could not listen to other music after that, it was so intense. Also at Steve's the Graham elite Anna did not sound as good as the SME 3012r with Zyx universe premium. That seemed consistent with what other visitors and Steve found as well

Lagonda · Aug 6, 2018

Thank you Ked !

ddk · Aug 6, 2018

I see you got the guy to change cartridges for you

, what are all those clips for?

david

bonzo75 said:
A massive room houses Magico Q7 mk2 with a stack of 6 REL subs driven by Alieno OTL (I have previously heard the Alieno with the M3 and compared it to Dagostino with a Feickert Firebird, but will wait to write more on details as I will get a further compare of the amps with that owner’s Techdas Af3 premium and Lampi Pacific).

J's preamp is the NAT Magnetostat, which J moved on to from the Allnic L5000. He also has the Berning and the Veloce preamps, and we did briefly compare the NAT to the Dartzeel as a preamp (I have previously*had*the NAT Magnetostat SE*on audition in my home system next to a Jadis pre).

Given the amount of gear, I paid J two visits, and spent two full days with changes made to the set up. I am posting this write-up as Day 1 and Day 2. The findings on Day 1 did change to Day 2.*

A long read, but it gets much better on Day 2 as compared to Day 1.*

The analog that we were able to compare was:

Kodo Beat (modded) and Vyger Indian Signature (modded)

Aesthetix IO Eclipse, Allnic H5000, and the Dartzeel phonos

Kiseki Purple Heart, Airtight Supreme, Allnic Puritas, Lyra Atlas, vDH Stradivarius, Benz LPS, and Zyx Omega carts

http://zero-distortion.org/allnic-aesthetix-io-dartzeel-kodo-beat-vyger-indian-signature-kiseki/

bonzo75 · Aug 6, 2018

I wouldn't know, can ask.

Tango · Aug 6, 2018

Dear Kedar,

I see you have improved your photography skill.

This room is full of toys. There are so many ingredients in the mix. Mr.J must be a marvelous chef to pull this dish off deliciously.

You have tasted the flavor of Schnerzinger picolos. Aren’t they better than your magic Mooks. If you are interested I can let go my extra set of six Picolos at special price. These things took me half a year to get. Precious little boxes with antenna indeed. You can put them in your bedroom to clear out digital smog and get better sleep and once you have a system you can relocate them.

Thank you for the write up.
Tang

bonzo75 · Aug 6, 2018

Mook footers are the best. One day you will try them properly.

Audio arts uses the scherzinger quite effectively..

The main pic was taken by the owner. He is a professional photographer

Tango · Aug 6, 2018

bonzo75 said:
The main pic was taken by the owner. He is a professional photographer

I have seen the pic before. Just want to see if you would take the credit

. Obviously you didn’t bite the bate.

Tang

bonzo75 · Aug 6, 2018

J was also the guy who encouraged the Allnic designer to use KR 242 in the Allnic, and encouraged Eunice kron to produce them so as to have a current production of 242 as compared to the telefunken (which he has and Allnic used earlier). So Lampi nation has him to thank for that

Lagonda · Aug 6, 2018

Tango said:
I have seen the pic before. Just want to see if you would take the credit . Obviously you didn’t bite the bate.

Tang

Thank you Tang, you make me laugh every day.

bonzo75 · Aug 6, 2018

Tango said:
I have seen the pic before. Just want to see if you would take the credit . Obviously you didn’t bite the bate.

Tang

Lol.

morricab · Aug 6, 2018

bonzo75 said:
A massive room houses Magico Q7 mk2 with a stack of 6 REL subs driven by Alieno OTL (I have previously heard the Alieno with the M3 and compared it to Dagostino with a Feickert Firebird, but will wait to write more on details as I will get a further compare of the amps with that owner’s Techdas Af3 premium and Lampi Pacific).

J's preamp is the NAT Magnetostat, which J moved on to from the Allnic L5000. He also has the Berning and the Veloce preamps, and we did briefly compare the NAT to the Dartzeel as a preamp (I have previously*had*the NAT Magnetostat SE*on audition in my home system next to a Jadis pre).

Given the amount of gear, I paid J two visits, and spent two full days with changes made to the set up. I am posting this write-up as Day 1 and Day 2. The findings on Day 1 did change to Day 2.*

A long read, but it gets much better on Day 2 as compared to Day 1.*

The analog that we were able to compare was:

Kodo Beat (modded) and Vyger Indian Signature (modded)

Aesthetix IO Eclipse, Allnic H5000, and the Dartzeel phonos

Kiseki Purple Heart, Airtight Supreme, Allnic Puritas, Lyra Atlas, vDH Stradivarius, Benz LPS, and Zyx Omega carts

http://zero-distortion.org/allnic-aesthetix-io-dartzeel-kodo-beat-vyger-indian-signature-kiseki/

Nice review, Ked. A lot of combinations to play with and sometimes not so easy to tell what's the contributing factor to the sound.

However, it reconfirms something i have believed in for a long time...the phonostage is probably the most important part of an analog rig. It is why I have stuck with my beloved Silvaweld (a KS Park of Allnic fame design) for all these years. It simply makes analog sound more real! My colleague has one of lower Allnic models (1500 I think) and my Silvaweld and that Allnic have many of the traits you attributes you noted with the big Allnic...for sure on a lower level but that flow, liquidity, tone and space are all there.

I found it interesting that you didn't find much in the two TTs...I guess a high mass/inertia design, whether DD or belt, will have a similar outcome. Seems reasonable if the Beat doesn't have an iron fisted control system, which likely it doesn't given the high mass platter.

I haven't heard the Aesthetix in a system that I know well but i can imagine it being very good as well in the right context.

I am not surprised you prefer the tube phonostage...I think a good tube one brings more natural flow and dynamic contrast to give a more realistic sound, IMO.

Do you think the EAR stepup was a better match with the Aesthetix than the Allnic head amp? Perhaps the head amp was overloading the input of the Aesthetix? If the overload margin on the Aesthetix is not so good an the gain of the Allnic very high this could cause distortion that might have resulted in the "muddy" sound. Just a thought...

spiritofmusic · Aug 6, 2018

Ked, can you say a bit more about this guy's room, and his use of room treatments?
Coming from a large open plan industrial space that was highly challenging without room treatments, I'm fascinated by what I see in the main photo.
I have been tempted to go the Accustica Applicata route, but for personal reasons won't investigate further.

bonzo75 · Aug 6, 2018

morricab said:
Nice review, Ked. A lot of combinations to play with and sometimes not so easy to tell what's the contributing factor to the sound.

However, it reconfirms something i have believed in for a long time...the phonostage is probably the most important part of an analog rig. It is why I have stuck with my beloved Silvaweld (a KS Park of Allnic fame design) for all these years. It simply makes analog sound more real! My colleague has one of lower Allnic models (1500 I think) and my Silvaweld and that Allnic have many of the traits you attributes you noted with the big Allnic...for sure on a lower level but that flow, liquidity, tone and space are all there.

I found it interesting that you didn't find much in the two TTs...I guess a high mass/inertia design, whether DD or belt, will have a similar outcome. Seems reasonable if the Beat doesn't have an iron fisted control system, which likely it doesn't given the high mass platter.

I haven't heard the Aesthetix in a system that I know well but i can imagine it being very good as well in the right context.

I am not surprised you prefer the tube phonostage...I think a good tube one brings more natural flow and dynamic contrast to give a more realistic sound, IMO.

Do you think the EAR stepup was a better match with the Aesthetix than the Allnic head amp? Perhaps the head amp was overloading the input of the Aesthetix? If the overload margin on the Aesthetix is not so good an the gain of the Allnic very high this could cause distortion that might have resulted in the "muddy" sound. Just a thought...

The two TTs sounded similar because his mods made them similar. He added similar platters, took away certain stock of Vyger. So the report on that TT compare is not conclusive. If you compare stock kodo and stock Vyger you could get entirely different results. My other TT compares showed huge variation in sound between different TTs.

The ear SUT definitely helped the Aesthetix more. That is what I like about this owner, he is always trying different combinations to improve.

My objective was to compare the phonos. While the report might sound confusing, on both days, everything was kept constant for that day. On day 1, time was spent more on Allnic Puritas, Lyra, and kiseki, which stood out after initial session, for the phono compares.

On day 2, time was spent with Lyra and VdH and then Lyra, as they stood out. Rolling the valves was not part of the plan and was done at the end. I was kicked I was able to recreate the scenario where kiseki would again sound better than Lyra. It means it wasn't a fluke or a mishearing, but clearly when the system drops with the Psvane quality, the outcome is different to when the overall system is better

bonzo75 · Aug 6, 2018

Also, it is easy to listen to the same record comparing two carts at a time on one table. For comparing phonos, keep one cart constant and flip between two phonos. Then change to another cart. If both are conclusive, move on. Do with carts on the other table.

Since he has the same arm and multiple arms on a table, it becomes very easy

bonzo75 · Aug 6, 2018

spiritofmusic said:
Ked, can you say a bit more about this guy's room, and his use of room treatments?
Coming from a large open plan industrial space that was highly challenging without room treatments, I'm fascinated by what I see in the main photo.
I have been tempted to go the Accustica Applicata route, but for personal reasons won't investigate further.

I didn't really check on the room treatments. He does have a large stage loads of bass without any boom. He can vary that easily by changing his tweaks.

spiritofmusic · Aug 6, 2018

Shame he didn't install a 3012R on the Vyger alongside keeping the Vyger LT. Then we could have had a comparison LOL.

Zero Distortion: Allnic, Aesthetix, Magic Q7 mk2, Alieno, loads of carts, Vyger, Kodo Beat

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