Wrong Shui..... aka Mitsubishi evo 6 stroker rebuild thread

infinitely baffled

VIP/Donor
Jul 2, 2015
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Hello gents

First let me start off by saying that i am not superstitious. Not me.
100% rational
So a few months ago i decided to try my own Feng Shui. There may have been psilocybin involved.
I thought, what if i laid a trail of coins from outside my front door, across my threshold. Might it cause money to flow into my household?
Well three months later i have my answer.

Due to a combination of potholes and a moody driveway resurface i suffered six punctures, two leaking shock absorders, two wheel bearings, a pair of balljoints a suspension arm and, from pulling two 4x4's out of a snowy ditch, a knackered clutch. Then my pride and joy Boulder power amp returned from the mender's only to wave the white flag within a week. Then i got the Evo back after fixing the oily bits, and within the same day to blow a piston

(it came back with no fuel, i rolled down to the local filling station and put in the minimum amount of regular unleaded to get me to the nearest source of 97 ron super unleaded, then filled up with proper juice, trickled off for about ten miles, then gradually built up speed, first proper WOT out of the bends and as boost built and i hit 4000rpm there was a massive shunt of a boost cut, what sounded like a backfire but from the engine not exhaust, immediately followed by the death rattle of a mortally wounded piston
:(

This was how i came to be scrabbling around on all fours, in the dark and the rain, retrieving small coins from around my doorstep at 1 am


So, life hacking of the universe now abandoned, I'm applying myself to an engine build.
Which is a bit of a shame, as that aspect of my car was it's strongest card. I always knew I'd drop some H section forged rods in at some point, the known 'weakness' in the 4g63 engine, but was planning on getting around to that once I'd put some Irish tarmac rally-spec coilovers in
(the roads around here are heavenly, but take a fearful pounding over the winter what with a daily freeze - thaw - refreeze cycle plus added forestry logging lorries, giving a surface that varies from mildly ploughed to heavily mined)

However we are where we are. Which means an opportunity to build a proper engine

Obvious candidate is a 2.3 forged stroker kit. Even better would be a fully built, crated short engine. The standard gearbox is good for 600hp, so that would be the upper limit. Also previous experience with stroked big power engines has confirmed my tactic of building the biggest and strongest bottom end, combined with the smallest turbos you can get away with without strangling the top end, for ridiculous response. This is, after all, a road car, and on the road this combo makes for a weapon that pulls like a train from low down, giving maximum torque out of corners and from the opning up of sightlines.
So we will go 2.3 forged engine plus a Tial v-band GT30 turbo, most likely a 3037r, to make ~480 to 550hp

The stage we are at right now is deciding which short engine to go for.
Tomei of Japan and AMS from the US are the leading contenders. Magnus and Buschur also possibilities. I will place my order in the next fortnight, and if people are interested i will continue to update the thread as we progress ?

Previous projects:
R32 nisssn skyline gtr, bored and stroked from 2.6 to 3.0 with dry sumped OS Gikken short engine, triple plate clutch, OS88 sequential gearbox, active OS plated diffs front and rear, cf propshaft, 2860 'disco potato' turbos x 2, , full chro moly roll cage, stripped interior, grp doors lexan glass, 650hp 640 lb/ft torque, high 9's 1/4 mile but built for the b- roads, 1 bar of boost @3000rpm

Toyota mr-s, engine swap to lotus exige 190 spec 2zz, bored and stroked from 1.8 to 2.0, standalone ecu, lumpy cams, six spead box, lsd, 250 hp n/a

Are any other WBF members into tuning cars?
 

infinitely baffled

VIP/Donor
Jul 2, 2015
1,259
387
340
Scotland
15334921179771296092181.jpg
 

GMKF

VIP/Donor
Aug 15, 2017
432
86
135
Munich
Hello gents

First let me start off by saying that i am not superstitious. Not me.
100% rational
So a few months ago i decided to try my own Feng Shui. There may have been psilocybin involved.
I thought, what if i laid a trail of coins from outside my front door, across my threshold. Might it cause money to flow into my household?
Well three months later i have my answer.

Due to a combination of potholes and a moody driveway resurface i suffered six punctures, two leaking shock absorders, two wheel bearings, a pair of balljoints a suspension arm and, from pulling two 4x4's out of a snowy ditch, a knackered clutch. Then my pride and joy Boulder power amp returned from the mender's only to wave the white flag within a week. Then i got the Evo back after fixing the oily bits, and within the same day to blow a piston

(it came back with no fuel, i rolled down to the local filling station and put in the minimum amount of regular unleaded to get me to the nearest source of 97 ron super unleaded, then filled up with proper juice, trickled off for about ten miles, then gradually built up speed, first proper WOT out of the bends and as boost built and i hit 4000rpm there was a massive shunt of a boost cut, what sounded like a backfire but from the engine not exhaust, immediately followed by the death rattle of a mortally wounded piston
:(

This was how i came to be scrabbling around on all fours, in the dark and the rain, retrieving small coins from around my doorstep at 1 am


So, life hacking of the universe now abandoned, I'm applying myself to an engine build.
Which is a bit of a shame, as that aspect of my car was it's strongest card. I always knew I'd drop some H section forged rods in at some point, the known 'weakness' in the 4g63 engine, but was planning on getting around to that once I'd put some Irish tarmac rally-spec coilovers in
(the roads around here are heavenly, but take a fearful pounding over the winter what with a daily freeze - thaw - refreeze cycle plus added forestry logging lorries, giving a surface that varies from mildly ploughed to heavily mined)

However we are where we are. Which means an opportunity to build a proper engine

Obvious candidate is a 2.3 forged stroker kit. Even better would be a fully built, crated short engine. The standard gearbox is good for 600hp, so that would be the upper limit. Also previous experience with stroked big power engines has confirmed my tactic of building the biggest and strongest bottom end, combined with the smallest turbos you can get away with without strangling the top end, for ridiculous response. This is, after all, a road car, and on the road this combo makes for a weapon that pulls like a train from low down, giving maximum torque out of corners and from the opning up of sightlines.
So we will go 2.3 forged engine plus a Tial v-band GT30 turbo, most likely a 3037r, to make ~480 to 550hp

The stage we are at right now is deciding which short engine to go for.
Tomei of Japan and AMS from the US are the leading contenders. Magnus and Buschur also possibilities. I will place my order in the next fortnight, and if people are interested i will continue to update the thread as we progress ?

Previous projects:
R32 nisssn skyline gtr, bored and stroked from 2.6 to 3.0 with dry sumped OS Gikken short engine, triple plate clutch, OS88 sequential gearbox, active OS plated diffs front and rear, cf propshaft, 2860 'disco potato' turbos x 2, , full chro moly roll cage, stripped interior, grp doors lexan glass, 650hp 640 lb/ft torque, high 9's 1/4 mile but built for the b- roads, 1 bar of boost @3000rpm

Toyota mr-s, engine swap to lotus exige 190 spec 2zz, bored and stroked from 1.8 to 2.0, standalone ecu, lumpy cams, six spead box, lsd, 250 hp n/a

Are any other WBF members into tuning cars?

That's unfortunate.

I haven't got any tuned cars but I know quite a bit about tuning.

In your position I would chose the AMS 2.2L Stroker. I recommend stroke before overboring the motor.
(https://www.amsperformance.com/cart...lution-x-4b11-2-2l-stroker-crate-engine.html/)
Proven engine and they have a reputation to loose. What cam specs are you planning to use ?
I do not know much about Tomei. Make sure they use high quality parts applies in all domains.

I would recommend getting turbos from this company. Give him a call and he will build you a fitting turbo.
http://www.ladermanufaktur.de/

For shocks I would choose Öhlins. Expensive but the best.

I would love to hear updates.
 

infinitely baffled

VIP/Donor
Jul 2, 2015
1,259
387
340
Scotland
Thanks for coming out to play, GMKF ?
Is your tuning experience with German cars?
I hear BTM and 9ff do terrific work....not forgetting Ruf of course


Cams will be in the 264 range. Low end response is everything.

Do you have experience with AMS?
They have a very good reputation.

The AMS engine you linked to is the 4b11 from an evo 10, these are the two most suitable candidates for a 4g63 swap, and highest on my list:

https://www.amsperformance.com/cart...r-evolution-evo-4-5-6-7-8-9-2-3rr-motor.html/

https://www.amsperformance.com/cart...evo-4-5-6-7-8-9-2-3-stroker-short-block.html/

Ohlins certainly top contenders as an off the shelf solution.
Also considered Nitron and exe, but the feeling is more for my application to spend a bit more and go for full competition spec coilovers. My friend also works with rally teams, i was thinking go full Proflex at 2.5k per corner but he has recently set up two rally teams with Samsonas Irish tarmac rally-spec coilovers, the drivers were both really impressed and the build strength and quality impressed the technicians and team manager when they ran a full season without rebuilds. They were running exe. before

I've found that off the shelf components just won't be durable enough for me, the conditions up here can be savage so they must cope with the topography, plus be immune from overheating as my (near) daily strop is north of a hundred miles on deserted mountain and forest roads

I'll post a link to the Tomei when i have it. But my gut says AMS is more likely
 

GMKF

VIP/Donor
Aug 15, 2017
432
86
135
Munich
Thanks for coming out to play, GMKF ?
Is your tuning experience with German cars?
I hear BTM and 9ff do terrific work....not forgetting Ruf of course


Cams will be in the 264 range. Low end response is everything.

Do you have experience with AMS?
They have a very good reputation.

The AMS engine you linked to is the 4b11 from an evo 10, these are the two most suitable candidates for a 4g63 swap, and highest on my list:

https://www.amsperformance.com/cart...r-evolution-evo-4-5-6-7-8-9-2-3rr-motor.html/

https://www.amsperformance.com/cart...evo-4-5-6-7-8-9-2-3-stroker-short-block.html/

Ohlins certainly top contenders as an off the shelf solution.
Also considered Nitron and exe, but the feeling is more for my application to spend a bit more and go for full competition spec coilovers. My friend also works with rally teams, i was thinking go full Proflex at 2.5k per corner but he has recently set up two rally teams with Samsonas Irish tarmac rally-spec coilovers, the drivers were both really impressed and the build strength and quality impressed the technicians and team manager when they ran a full season without rebuilds. They were running exe. before

I've found that off the shelf components just won't be durable enough for me, the conditions up here can be savage so they must cope with the topography, plus be immune from overheating as my (near) daily strop is north of a hundred miles on deserted mountain and forest roads

I'll post a link to the Tomei when i have it. But my gut says AMS is more likely

Yes my tuning experience is with mostly with german cars- mostly cars of my friends. I drive a 05 Cayenne S and a 1992 964 Cab. Both excellent cars stock. I see no need to modify them. Although I'm thinking of buying an E-Golf for tuning purposes.

AMS's fit and finish on AMG intake kits seems to be superb. They also increase power with AMG 63 if you have a few mods installed already.
Can't speak for their engines, but the parts they use is good stuff. Yeah I didnt pay proper attention while searching for the engine...

That suspension stuff is far beyond anything I know. Trust your friend.
My motto is stock suspension as long as possible because Porsche and BMW-M really know how to properly set up a car. Improving upon a Golf's suspension is comparatively easy.

Where do you live ? Those roads sound really bad...
 

Sablon Audio

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
May 22, 2015
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Have you considered WMI? That would boost the octane whilst also promoting cooler running. You could then crank on more ignition advance and possibly higher compression pistons in your rebuild for better responsiveness.
 
Last edited:

infinitely baffled

VIP/Donor
Jul 2, 2015
1,259
387
340
Scotland
Yes my tuning experience is with mostly with german cars- mostly cars of my friends. I drive a 05 Cayenne S and a 1992 964 Cab. Both excellent cars stock. I see no need to modify them. Although I'm thinking of buying an E-Golf for tuning purposes.

AMS's fit and finish on AMG intake kits seems to be superb. They also increase power with AMG 63 if you have a few mods installed already.
Can't speak for their engines, but the parts they use is good stuff. Yeah I didnt pay proper attention while searching for the engine...

That suspension stuff is far beyond anything I know. Trust your friend.
My motto is stock suspension as long as possible because Porsche and BMW-M really know how to properly set up a car. Improving upon a Golf's suspension is comparatively easy.

Where do you live ? Those roads sound really bad...

I'm in Scotland. The roads are sensational, beginning from my doorstep with a mile-long gravel stage up to the nearest b-road.
But they tend to tear up really badly over the winter. We should really improve the quality of our road building, compared to roads in Germany and Austria UK roads look to have been built by drunken amateurs

One of my neighbours has a Cayenne Gts that I'm trying to persuade him to sell me. Its the n/a V8 version. I would like to scratch the V8 itch gefore they are all phased out...how do you get on with yours?

Does that mean you are going to tune an electric Golf?
Very interesting.....
I'd love my next fun car to be electric. Ariel's Nomad is the contender, it has the holy troika of roll cage, long travel suspension and open air cockpit, albeit with a honda v-tec lump as of now

https://goo.gl/images/nkSKe2
 

infinitely baffled

VIP/Donor
Jul 2, 2015
1,259
387
340
Scotland
Have you considered WMI? That would boost the octane whilst also promoting cooler running. You could then crank on more ignition advance and possibly higher compression pistons in your rebuild for better responsiveness.

Not famliar witb WMI, is it an octane booster?

I'm anticipating a fairly high-ish compression ratio 10:1, there's no benefit to going too low in this engine
 

Sablon Audio

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
May 22, 2015
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Last edited:

GMKF

VIP/Donor
Aug 15, 2017
432
86
135
Munich
I'm in Scotland. The roads are sensational, beginning from my doorstep with a mile-long gravel stage up to the nearest b-road.
But they tend to tear up really badly over the winter. We should really improve the quality of our road building, compared to roads in Germany and Austria UK roads look to have been built by drunken amateurs

One of my neighbours has a Cayenne Gts that I'm trying to persuade him to sell me. Its the n/a V8 version. I would like to scratch the V8 itch gefore they are all phased out...how do you get on with yours?

Does that mean you are going to tune an electric Golf?
Very interesting.....
I'd love my next fun car to be electric. Ariel's Nomad is the contender, it has the holy troika of roll cage, long travel suspension and open air cockpit, albeit with a honda v-tec lump as of now

https://goo.gl/images/nkSKe2

Ah. Some german roads in the north are crap aswell.

I get along quite well with my Cayenne S. Make sure to get a pre-purchase inspection. I had a Porsche approved warranty on mine.
So far so good. Parts are rather expensive. The engine is bulletproof, if you warm it up properly before giving it "the beans".
No rust at all. Needed wheel-bearings once. Now on 180.000km. Mine hasn't got air suspension.
Make sure the air suspension has never been repaired. If it has been open once, the stakes are high it will break again.

They had to replace the entire interior wire harness once. That would have been a 10k bill.... luckily still in warranty at that point.
The interior is in quite good shape. The PCM needed fixing once. The seatsbacks fall off at some point when the glue goes bad. Semi-easy fix. Porsche wants 400€ for the seatback, I reglued the clips to the seatback and put it on. The headlights had to be replaced because they drew water.

If you can get a GTS with a manual gearbox do so. Mine has got an automatic that is good but takes a second to shift.

I want to tune an E-Golf because why not ? I have done some research and it should be possible to get some more power out of it.
Lighten up the car, but some super light wheels on it, proper tires and proper brakes and suspension...
 

infinitely baffled

VIP/Donor
Jul 2, 2015
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Scotland
Is water methanol injection, primarily more of a cooling / anti-detonation technique but can be mapped with a greater methanol dependency for octane boosting purposes. This article gives an interesting insight into the history and rationale

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engine)

And here is a dyno test on an Evo. Nice gain with earlier spool and much more area under the curve

https://speed.academy/methanol-injection-explained-power-gains/

Aaah gotcha, i am familiar with it, i just forgot the acronym :D

That's a really interesting article. That system would permit one to run a higher state of tune to squeeze the last few hp out, but i guess the disadvantage is similar to running nitrous; you end up needing to top up as frequently as you fill with petrol.
I think we will probably be running well within ourselves to get the power I'm after, so it might not be required.
But for competition use it would be very useful
 

Drikus

Member Sponsor
Sep 28, 2012
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Are any other WBF members into tuning cars?

I'm in the process of getting an Apec Stage 3 tuning for my Golf 6 GTI DSG at the moment. We did a dyno test last thursday and I've got 224 hp and 293 nm torque at the moment which will be +/- 370 hp and 480 nm torque after tuning. Will know the exact figures when we do a dyno test after tuning.

Stage 3 tuning parts to be installed;

VW Racing Intake system
Competition Intercooler
Silicone casing upgrade kit
K04 turbokit
Downpipe (decat)
DSG tuning

Plus some options like Multimap (2 mapsets, 1 original & 1 stage 3) & Pops & Bangs.

Tuning will take place on the 24th of this month.

zzslhi3.jpg

J7KXUeH.jpg

5JsaxGF.jpg
 
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Sablon Audio

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
May 22, 2015
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@Drikus, will you be needing to upgrade the HPFP for that tune or is that just the mk5 gti and mk6R? I have one on my mk5 and it makes a big difference to midrange torque. Btw think you may be confusing nm and lbft for torque - 480lb ft is hybrid k04 territory.
 

infinitely baffled

VIP/Donor
Jul 2, 2015
1,259
387
340
Scotland
I'm in the process of getting an Apec Stage 3 tuning for my Golf 6 GTI DSG at the moment. We did a dyno test last thursday and I've got 224 hp and 293 nm torque at the moment which will be +/- 370 hp and 480 nm torque after tuning. Will know the exact figures when we do a dyno test after tuning.

Stage 3 tuning parts to be installed;

VW Racing Intake system
Competition Intercooler
Silicone casing upgrade kit
K04 turbokit
Downpipe (decat)
DSG tuning

Plus some options like Multimap (2 mapsets, 1 original & 1 stage 3) & Pops & Bangs.

Tuning will take place on the 24th of this month.

View attachment 43181

View attachment 43182

View attachment 43183

Nice.....keep us posted?
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,899
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495
Nice car!

I have a '16 STi, and plan on converting it to flex fuel so I can run E85, or 85% ethanol/15% gasoline mix or any combination of E85 and regular gas. E85 is 104 octane equivalent so turbo motors run very well on it.

A 2.5L STi motor is capable of over 300 WHP with E85 pretty easily on the stock turbo, which is fast enough for me. There are turbos which give up very little on the bottom end and will make a good bit more power up top vs stock, but the OEM short block may not last too long.

I've owned a few DSM (Eagle Talon TSi, Mitsu Eclipse) from the early 90's with 4g63 motors and I've managed to blow up 2 of them... one from a faulty fuel injector driver in the ECU and another from a failed coolant tube. Turbos are great in some applications but there's no room for error.
 

Don Hills

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2013
366
1
323
Wellington, New Zealand
...
Are any other WBF members into tuning cars?

I was, about 20 years ago... I used to spend almost as much on tyres and brake pads as I did on gas. About 7.5k miles per set of tyres...
(Mazda GT-X, JDM, same body as the 1990+ Protege sedan in US / Canada, 323 saloon in the UK.)
Unusually, it was designed to run on regular unleaded. It had a boost cut to reduce the boost over the detonation prone part of the rev range. I ran it on 98 with the cut disabled. The engine was unbreakable but the gearbox was glass... :D
 

infinitely baffled

VIP/Donor
Jul 2, 2015
1,259
387
340
Scotland
....aah happy days.....??

Sounds like my old Nissan Pulsar / Sunny Gti-R.
One heck of an engine, one shitter of a gearbox ??


I tend to get 1500 - 2000 miles from a set of tyres and pads, even wear all round, no drifting. Mind you that is with a fairly soft compound tyre
(Yokohama adov8 rubber, carbotech pads)
and I'm lucky enough to live in the middle of a giant, empty, petrolhead playground
Its gone up a bit in the last few years since i usually have the dogs in the car. They dont mind acceleration, or cornering, it's the hurling it into the braking zone they don't enjoy too much, so now my fronts tend to have little more left than on than the rears when it comes to time to change

Those US spec 4g63's are a funny beast.....in Europe and Japan they come with 280bhp 290 ft/lb as standard, although most have closer to 300, and they are fairly unbreakable until you get to 450 bhp when they need a set of rods.
Whereas US spec can be 140 bhp....im guessing due to emissions and the relatively low octane of USDM pump gas?
Its interesting that when knowledgeable americans tune cars the first stop often seems to be fuel upgrades of the sort you are talking about, Dave, if they are going for turbo engines or high specific output n/a's
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,899
2,141
495
....aah happy days.....??

Sounds like my old Nissan Pulsar / Sunny Gti-R.
One heck of an engine, one shitter of a gearbox ??


I tend to get 1500 - 2000 miles from a set of tyres and pads, even wear all round, no drifting. Mind you that is with a fairly soft compound tyre
(Yokohama adov8 rubber, carbotech pads)
and I'm lucky enough to live in the middle of a giant, empty, petrolhead playground
Its gone up a bit in the last few years since i usually have the dogs in the car. They dont mind acceleration, or cornering, it's the hurling it into the braking zone they don't enjoy too much, so now my fronts tend to have little more left than on than the rears when it comes to time to change

Those US spec 4g63's are a funny beast.....in Europe and Japan they come with 280bhp 290 ft/lb as standard, although most have closer to 300, and they are fairly unbreakable until you get to 450 bhp when they need a set of rods.
Whereas US spec can be 140 bhp....im guessing due to emissions and the relatively low octane of USDM pump gas?
Its interesting that when knowledgeable americans tune cars the first stop often seems to be fuel upgrades of the sort you are talking about, Dave, if they are going for turbo engines or high specific output n/a's

I think the 1st 4g63s were in the DSM motors cars, the Eagle Talon/Mitsu Eclipse/Plymouth Lazer. The non-turbo was about 140 hp, the turbo version was 195 hp and was in fwd and awd cars. Later, they made a lot more power in the Mitsu Evo. In the DSM cars they only produced 7 lbs of boost, and for the price of a set of fuel injectors, a piggyback fueling computer, boost control and a few other cheap mods you can get another 100 hp or so. The ECUs had some bad caps that would leak and destroy motors, they also had crankwalk and some other issues but were at the top of the heap as far as import drag racing for many years.

US gasoline is a huge issue for turbo cars, which is why I want to run E85. The Subaru EJ25 with it's oversquare short-stroke design is especially susceptible to bad gas... E85 makes it run so much better and smoother.
 

Don Hills

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2013
366
1
323
Wellington, New Zealand
....aah happy days.....

Sounds like my old Nissan Pulsar / Sunny Gti-R.

Ah, son of Godzilla. :D They were rare here, unusual because we were awash with R32 Skyline GTRs.

I tend to get 1500 - 2000 miles from a set of tyres and pads, even wear all round, no drifting. Mind you that is with a fairly soft compound tyre (Yokohama adov8 rubber, carbotech pads) and I'm lucky enough to live in the middle of a giant, empty, petrolhead playground ...

I had a very different playground - it was almost all city / urban driving. I somehow avoided ever getting a ticket. Bridgestone S-03. They were especially good in the wet. They had a graduated compound, the inner rubber was softer to maintain grip as they wore down.

Those US spec 4g63's are a funny beast.....

The competition here at the time was the Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 (Evo predecessor.) My GT-X BGMR was never sold in the US/Canada, but some 3000 LHD VR-4s were.

(There was the Subaru Legacy RS as well, but I have never liked Subarus. Besides, my GT-X was quicker. :D )
 

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