Do you believe this Schiit? I don't.

MidFi13 · Jul 30, 2018

Received a Schiit Gungnir and hooked it up through Toslink to a Cambridge CXC. First issue was a ton of hum. Schiit website told me to use a HumX. That was a new one on me so I researched the HumX. A video told me to first test the DAC with a ground plug. Hum goes away get the HumX. Still hummed so I told Schiit.

Then I finished the setup and got continuous clicking while the DAC tried to communicate with the Cambridge transport. Back to the Schiit website. It tells me to get another transport. Really. I am supposed to keep buying transports until one works? Weird Schiit, right?

After requesting a return authorization I was told it would cost 5% restock and shipping - damn near $100. So, in summary, the Schiit I got stinks and I get to spend $100 getting rid of the smell. WHAT DO FORUM WATCHERS THINK ABOUT THAT!! And by the way, I own two of their other products (Saga and Vidar) and used to have a third before selling it earlier this year.

twitch · Jul 30, 2018

seems pretty 'Schiity' to me .............

ack · Jul 30, 2018

Regarding the lock, the revered Vivaldi 2.0 DAC could not lock onto my Spectral transport with the supplied Transparent XL digital cable after a few minutes, but it worked fine with my MIT MA-X - so the cable made a difference, probably noise picked up by the Transparent, but at the same time, the lock frequency is probably very very narrow both in my transport and the DAC. If I were to guess, the same DAC would be having no problems locking to its own Vivaldi transport with the same Transparent cable (in fact, I am quite certain this was the case, according to their owner). The conclusion I would draw from that is that the Vivaldis lock themselves at an even tighter frequency, and any small noise picked by a cable is not detrimental; by contrast, the Vivaldi DAC and my Spectral transport are probably a little off in the lock frequency, and whatever offset the Vivaldi is programmed to accommodate makes it sensitive to the cable.

In other words: it could be the DAC, your transport and/or the cable. Some transports have a trimmer to adjust the lock frequency, so "get another transport" is not inaccurate, "adjust your transport" wouldn't be either, ditto for "get a better cable", and "our DAC is off" is yet another credible answer. Obviously, the match between the two wasn't great, but it doesn't mean the transport is the definite culprit.

Al M. · Jul 30, 2018

ack said:
Regarding the lock, the revered Vivaldi 2.0 DAC could not lock onto my Spectral transport with the supplied Transparent XL digital cable after a few minutes, but it worked fine with my MIT MA-X - so the cable made a difference, probably noise picked up by the Transparent, but at the same time, the lock frequency is probably very very narrow both in my transport and the DAC. If I were to guess, the same DAC would be having no problems locking to its own Vivaldi transport with the same Transparent cable (in fact, I am quite certain this was the case, according to their owner). The conclusion I would draw from that is that the Vivaldis lock themselves at an even tighter frequency, and any small noise picked by a cable is not detrimental; by contrast, the Vivaldi DAC and my Spectral transport are probably a little off in the lock frequency, and whatever offset the Vivaldi is programmed to accommodate makes it sensitive to the cable.

In other words: it could be the DAC, your transport and/or the cable. Some transports have a trimmer to adjust the lock frequency, so "get another transport" is not inaccurate, "adjust your transport" wouldn't be either, ditto for "get a better cable", and "our DAC is off" is yet another credible answer. Obviously, the match between the two wasn't great, but it doesn't mean the transport is the definite culprit.

This all makes sense. I have no problem locking my Schiit Yggdrasil DAC to my Simaudio Moon 260 DT transport via MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable. No Schiit.

Folsom · Jul 30, 2018

The reasons for hum can be... well there's so many that I am never quick to indicate I believe whole heartily it is one component causing it.

Schiit operates on a very thin budget to sell stuff about as cheaply as possible. Don't like the restocking fee? Go buy from someone charging a good 3x-10x more than them for a similar product (in quality, not sound necessarily).

microstrip · Jul 30, 2018

ack said:
Regarding the lock, the revered Vivaldi 2.0 DAC could not lock onto my Spectral transport with the supplied Transparent XL digital cable after a few minutes, but it worked fine with my MIT MA-X - so the cable made a difference, probably noise picked up by the Transparent, but at the same time, the lock frequency is probably very very narrow both in my transport and the DAC. If I were to guess, the same DAC would be having no problems locking to its own Vivaldi transport with the same Transparent cable (in fact, I am quite certain this was the case, according to their owner). The conclusion I would draw from that is that the Vivaldis lock themselves at an even tighter frequency, and any small noise picked by a cable is not detrimental; by contrast, the Vivaldi DAC and my Spectral transport are probably a little off in the lock frequency, and whatever offset the Vivaldi is programmed to accommodate makes it sensitive to the cable.

In other words: it could be the DAC, your transport and/or the cable. Some transports have a trimmer to adjust the lock frequency, so "get another transport" is not inaccurate, "adjust your transport" wouldn't be either, ditto for "get a better cable", and "our DAC is off" is yet another credible answer. Obviously, the match between the two wasn't great, but it doesn't mean the transport is the definite culprit.

Noise can not affect performance using a short digital cable between the two units - for example I would risk that the output impedance of your Spectral is not accurate and you were having an impedance mismatch somewhere, as I have measured the input impedance of my Vivaldi DAC and I know it is accurate to better than 1%.

However many transports have pulse transformers to provide galvanic insulation that is not very accurate. The critical parameter here is the characteristic impedance and bandwidth - probably the particular combination of transport and MIT cable managed to solve the problem of reflections in the cable.

However your single experiment without any measurements does not allow us to suggest any real reason for this behavior. Once again we would risk behaving like the scientist and the frog.

You are right that trimming the frequency of the transport or enlarging the lock of the DAC could solve the problem - some old DACs allowed it - although compromising the sound quality.

NorthStar · Jul 30, 2018

I wish they had chosen a different name for their audio company.
It's the least attractive of them all.

Al M. · Jul 30, 2018

NorthStar said:
I wish the had chosen a different name for their audio company.
It's the least attractive of them all.

Schiit sells.

ack · Jul 30, 2018

microstrip said:
Noise can not affect performance using a short digital cable between the two units - for example I would risk that the output impedance of your Spectral is not accurate and you were having an impedance mismatch somewhere, as I have measured the input impedance of my Vivaldi DAC and I know it is accurate to better than 1%.

I don't know about that... I do know that I had no trouble with either the Transparent or the MIT going into my Berkeley, from the same transport. I do still think it's noise and a very narrow lock window, simply because I would think both digital cables at the price range we are talking about would have solved the impedance-match issue... moreover, reflections would affect the sound, not the locking question... but it really doesn't matter what root cause is, in the context of the original question.

NorthStar · Jul 30, 2018

Al M. said:
Schiit sells.

Not in my lake.

Joe Whip · Jul 30, 2018

Just wondering, but did you try a coax digital cable if the transport supports it? How about a usb cable if you have a laptop to seeif the laptop will connect and play music without these issues?

Empirical Audio · Jul 30, 2018

ack said:
Regarding the lock, the revered Vivaldi 2.0 DAC could not lock onto my Spectral transport with the supplied Transparent XL digital cable after a few minutes, but it worked fine with my MIT MA-X - so the cable made a difference, probably noise picked up by the Transparent, but at the same time, the lock frequency is probably very very narrow both in my transport and the DAC. If I were to guess, the same DAC would be having no problems locking to its own Vivaldi transport with the same Transparent cable (in fact, I am quite certain this was the case, according to their owner). The conclusion I would draw from that is that the Vivaldis lock themselves at an even tighter frequency, and any small noise picked by a cable is not detrimental; by contrast, the Vivaldi DAC and my Spectral transport are probably a little off in the lock frequency, and whatever offset the Vivaldi is programmed to accommodate makes it sensitive to the cable.

In other words: it could be the DAC, your transport and/or the cable. Some transports have a trimmer to adjust the lock frequency, so "get another transport" is not inaccurate, "adjust your transport" wouldn't be either, ditto for "get a better cable", and "our DAC is off" is yet another credible answer. Obviously, the match between the two wasn't great, but it doesn't mean the transport is the definite culprit.

Sounds to me like a ground-loop may be the culprit here. The transport may have bad signal integrity or a poor match to 75 ohms, making it sensitive to everything. This is really quite common. Saw it many times in modding transports for 10 years.

Also, if you are not using a 1.5m digital cable, you are likely getting reflections that add jitter.

Is the DAC and source plugged into the same AC outlet? Are you using some kind of conditioner? What about the preamp?

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

ack · Jul 30, 2018

Empirical Audio said:
Sounds to me like a ground-loop may be the culprit here. The transport may have bad signal integrity or a poor match to 75 ohms, making it sensitive to everything. This is really quite common. Saw it many times in modding transports for 10 years.

Also, if you are not using a 1.5m digital cable, you are likely getting reflections that add jitter.

Is the DAC and source plugged into the same AC outlet? Are you using some kind of conditioner? What about the preamp?

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Let's get serious please, we are also off topic. A ground loop would not be fixed by changing one AES/EBU cable for another; you either have a ground loop or you don't. Think about it: you are saying a digital MIT cable can break ground loops with digital components - wow. It's like telling me I can break any ground loop by changing a simple power cord. So again, let's get serious. And read on, no issues with my Berkeley.

Ken Newton · Jul 30, 2018

MidFi13 said:
Received a Schiit Gungnir and hooked it up through Toslink to a Cambridge CXC. First issue was a ton of hum. Schiit website told me to use a HumX. That was a new one on me so I researched the HumX. A video told me to first test the DAC with a ground plug. Hum goes away get the HumX. Still hummed so I told Schiit.

Then I finished the setup and got continuous clicking while the DAC tried to communicate with the Cambridge transport...

My first suspician is that your Schiit DAC is faulty. Perhaps, a bad solder joint to ground somewhere. That could be causing both hum as well as interfere with the digital link integrity.

paul79 · Jul 30, 2018

Folsom said:
The reasons for hum can be... well there's so many that I am never quick to indicate I believe whole heartily it is one component causing it.

Schiit operates on a very thin budget to sell stuff about as cheaply as possible. Don't like the restocking fee? Go buy from someone charging a good 3x-10x more than them for a similar product (in quality, not sound necessarily).

I agree. If you are not willing to go through the warranty or exchange route to try another or let the company fix the one you have, restocking fee is what you get. More like typical business practice Schiit.

Basically, if you have disconnected everything from the DAC, plugged the DAC into your preamp, plugged the DAC into a cheater plug to eliminate AC ground, and it still hums, DAC is broken. This is also assuming you do not have another ground loop in your system. Process of elimination needs to take place here.

Esotar · Jul 31, 2018

I agree.

Schiit is very unkind.

NorthStar · Jul 31, 2018

It's a chitty name.

Alrainbow · Jul 31, 2018

Schitt happens...

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Al M. · Jul 31, 2018

paul79 said:
I agree. If you are not willing to go through the warranty or exchange route to try another or let the company fix the one you have, restocking fee is what you get. More like typical business practice Schiit.

Basically, if you have disconnected everything from the DAC, plugged the DAC into your preamp, plugged the DAC into a cheater plug to eliminate AC ground, and it still hums, DAC is broken. This is also assuming you do not have another ground loop in your system. Process of elimination needs to take place here.

Sounds like a strategy. And as you say, there's always warranty. In the case of Schiit a generous five years.

Al M. · Jul 31, 2018

NorthStar said:
It's a chitty name.

I love my Schiity sound!

Fortunately, I did not let myself distract from considering the company by some Schiity humor. I loved the subversive nature of it; time that the High End stops taking itself so seriously. The name certainly did not stand in the way of the success of the company, perhaps to the contrary; going from a tiny start-up in a garage (literally) in 2010 to selling 65,000 units in 2017 is no Schiit.

Do you believe this Schiit? I don't.

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