Subwoofers with servo

Mr TAD · Jul 22, 2018

Hi guys

I recently got a Velodyne DD+10 and love the way it integrates itself with my TAD speakers. Perfect marriage in my control room.

With Velodyne seemingly going out of business, or changing business direction, I'm looking for other manufacturers that makes subwoofers with servo, preferably digital servo. To me, it really sets Velodyne ahead of other manufacturers.

I know Rythmik Audio uses some kind of analogue servo, but I haven't had the chance to listen to them yet.

Are there any other brands that manufacture subwoofers with built-in servo?

Thanks in advance
Fred

LL21 · Jul 22, 2018

Congrats, Mr TAD! As a fellow DD+ owner, I am with you and equally have enjoyed the way it integrates with the big Wilsons. I do wonder whether it is the servo...or the software controlling the crossover and output of the Velodyne that make it so good. Probably both...integration is key...but also in a 'relatively small' box the power of the sub and the bass it is trying to produce is probably greatly assisted in accuracy, lowered distortion, etc by the servo element.

Personally, if this Velodyne goes down and is not reparable...i think JL and Paradigm are the 2 subs i would consider. Magico's sub is apparently something else, but so is the price! It deals with distortion differently with, among other things, heroic build and opposing cones that also help stabilize the box in terms of back-forces from the cone.

treitz3 · Jul 22, 2018

Hi, Fred. I personally do not think it is the software technology that makes your V-DD10 stand out from the crowd. My experience tells me that it is the technology of the direct servo that makes a sub stand out from the crowd and so easy to blend into the mains.

I have two Rythmik F-25's in my rig and they were purchased unheard based upon my observations of two other direct servo subs that I personally dialed into two different rigs. I consider this one of the best decisions I have made for my system and these actually beat out the musicality and lower octave reproductive efforts from a VMPS Larger with upgrades. I didn't think that was even possible with the way I had it hooked up. If you want to up your game to the top of dierct servo, you might want to consider (Gary's) Genesis Direct Servo subs.

Tom

Mr TAD · Jul 23, 2018

LL21 said:
Congrats, Mr TAD! As a fellow DD+ owner, I am with you and equally have enjoyed the way it integrates with the big Wilsons. I do wonder whether it is the servo...or the software controlling the crossover and output of the Velodyne that make it so good. Probably both...integration is key...but also in a 'relatively small' box the power of the sub and the bass it is trying to produce is probably greatly assisted in accuracy, lowered distortion, etc by the servo element.

Fantastic to hear that they even integrate well with big Wilson speakers.

As you say, integration is key. The filters inside the DD+ subwoofers sounds great. I measure the room response and set them manually, but I've heard that the automatic mode works well too.

The servo works really well to tighten up the low-end response.

treitz3 said:
Hi, Fred. I personally do not think it is the software technology that makes your V-DD10 stand out from the crowd. My experience tells me that it is the technology of the direct servo that makes a sub stand out from the crowd and so easy to blend into the mains.

I agree. The servo is one of the key components why the DD+ subwoofers perform so well.

treitz3 said:
I have two Rythmik F-25's in my rig and they were purchased unheard based upon my observations of two other direct servo subs that I personally dialed into two different rigs. I consider this one of the best decisions I have made for my system and these actually beat out the musicality and lower octave reproductive efforts from a VMPS Larger with upgrades.

Great to hear that the Rythmik Audio subs works out great for you. I've had my eyes on them and I've listen to a podcast where the designer talks about the analogue servo. I've never considered servos in speakers before listening to him.

Rythmik Audio subs were my first goal, but they are impossible to find here in Sweden.

The pricing seems rather good if you're in the US.

Then I got to listen to some Velodyne subs and when I heard the DD+ series, I was sold.

treitz3 said:
I didn't think that was even possible with the way I had it hooked up. If you want to up your game to the top of dierct servo, you might want to consider (Gary's) Genesis Direct Servo subs.

Perfect! Another digital servo sub. I'm mainly thinking of subs for clients of mine, if Velodyne is discontinued.

The Genesis subs look really interesting and the pricing seems okay too.

Are there any other servo subs available, digital or analogue?

Many thanks for the information

Fred

Bruce B · Jul 23, 2018

Doesn't the Genesis subs have servos?

I have 2 JL f112 v2 subs and they have integrated well with Wilson and Revel.

treitz3 · Jul 23, 2018

Yes, Bruce. The Genesis subs have direct Servo.

Fred, Infinity either has made or makes them. Not quite sure about any others.

Here is the thread where I learned about Rythmik and about direct servo, if you are interested in reading it... http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...al-fast-and-accurate-subwoofer-you-have-heard

Tom

Al M. · Jul 23, 2018

Bruce B said:
I have 2 JL f112 v2 subs and they have integrated well with Wilson and Revel.

Good choice! I love my 2 JL f112 v2 subs as well. Such speed, accuracy and resolution.

treitz3 · Jul 23, 2018

Hello and good evening to you gentlemen. Specifically Bruce and Al. The JL subs I have heard are.......eh, not so outstanding.

I will admit that I have not heard them all but my impressions were not that good with those that have heard. Tighter than most when dialed in but nowhere close to a servo. Have ether one of you had the chance to compare the two technologies yet?

Does JL make a direct servo sub? With room/speaker corrections perhaps?

Tom

Ron Resnick · Jul 23, 2018

I think this debate will go around in circles until we get a highly regarded servo subwoofer and a highly regarded, and comparable, non-servo subwoofer in the same system.

We need Gary’s G928 versus a JL Audio F112 or an REL G1, or a 15” Rythmik versus a 15” Seaton.

Al M. · Jul 24, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
I think this debate will go around in circles until we get a highly regarded servo subwoofer and a highly regarded, and comparable, non-servo subwoofer in the same system.

Precisely. You have to compare in the same system and room. Otherwise the debate hangs on too many variables.

My room had many acoustic issues that I had to correct, but in terms of bass behaviour it was always very good and comparatively quite free of problems. So the JL subs have already a good sustrate to work with. They , just like other subs, might not sound as good in other, more problematic rooms.

treitz3 said:
Does JL make a direct servo sub? With room/speaker corrections perhaps?

Tom

The current JL subs version 2 feature digital room correction, calibrated with included mike at the listening position.

microstrip · Jul 24, 2018

As always, there is no magic in any solution - each technique has a sound signature, we must choose what we prefer. Servo subs give the designer some extra control on the speaker parameters, but must sample current velocity or acceleration of the speaker to correct it, an imperfect process.

IMHO it is meaningless to debate performance unless you define precisely what you expect from a subwoofer - aspects such as bass cut-off and sound level, and the size of the room.

C.A.P · Jul 24, 2018

Those who have not heard Rythmik forst hand will not understand. Having had a few and own a twin 12 with GR research woofers. (Danny Ritchie and Brian designed these as paper for better 2 channel ) They are almost non sub like. I actually paired the big twin twelve with a set of Watt 3 heads and they really kept up.. If you want to remove pictures from walls you can to. Most people run their subs to hot in 2 channel. I also have a Mirage BPS400 with twin 12 bi polar design that was highly regarded as the sub to have for deep bass . It is not servo . I cant hold a candle to the twin 12 Rythmik /Gr combo for music. HT is what I use the Mirage for ..

Al M. · Jul 24, 2018

C.A.P said:
Those who have not heard Rythmik forst hand will not understand.

Well, we can debate until we're blue in the face if we haven't heard each other's systems. I can also claim that those who haven't heard my JL subs in my system will not understand -- and really, you can't know how it sounds. So without listening evidence it's pointless.

Bruce B · Jul 24, 2018

Al M. said:
Well, we can debate until we're blue in the face if we haven't heard each other's systems. I can also claim that those who haven't heard my JL subs in my system will not understand -- and really, you can't know how it sounds. So without listening evidence it's pointless.

I'm also using the JL CR-1 outboard crossover system as well. Honestly, the only other subs I've had in my system were Wilson, Focal and Velodyne.

Ron Resnick · Jul 24, 2018

That’s a lot of subwoofers, Bruce!

Which Wilson subwoofer did you have?

Bruce B · Jul 25, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
That’s a lot of subwoofers, Bruce!

Which Wilson subwoofer did you have?

I had 2 WatchDogs

Ron Resnick · Jul 25, 2018

very nice!

infinitely baffled · Jul 25, 2018

Bruce B said:
I'm also using the JL CR-1 outboard crossover system as well. Honestly, the only other subs I've had in my system were Wilson, Focal and Velodyne.

And may i ask which Focal sub you experienced....was it the sub Utopia?
I would bite Focal's hand off if they ever produced an 18" version

Bruce B · Jul 25, 2018

infinitely baffled said:
And may i ask which Focal sub you experienced....was it the sub Utopia?

These were the Studio subs

infinitely baffled · Jul 25, 2018

So not really direct competitors to Velodyne Dd+ or the JL's.
About a fifth the price...the Sub Utopia may have been a better match for your system?

I only asked because i would like to hear the opinion of someone familiar with sub Utopia

Subwoofers with servo

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