For Duke Question

Ron Resnick

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For Duke: Bill Berry and his Ellington All-Stars, RT-101, is an M&K RealTime direct-to-disc LP.

We now know that a real-to-reel tape was recording the direct-to-disc session. There are non-direct-to-disc LPs mastered from this reel-to-reel tape. I am not in this thread talking about those copies.

I am talking about the true direct-to-disc copies, RT-101.

With that introduction here’s my question:

Why do some RT-101s have in the upper left corner of the cardboard jacket a square sticker saying “DIRECT TO DISC” and “M&K RealTime” and some RT101 jacket covers do not have this sticker?

Were there two printing runs of the direct-to-disc LP? One with the sticker in the upper left-hand corner of the jacket cover, and one without the sticker in the upper left-hand corner of the jack cover?



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B63DA638-4D90-40D9-B3C5-2E5C12ACF5D1.jpg
 

rockitman

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for one thing, the picture of the cover with the sticker is the jacket with outer cellophane. The sticker is attached to the cellophane so when the cellophane is not there, the sticker won't be either.
 

Ron Resnick

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Yes, Christian, I see you are correct! Thank you!

Still, does the sticker on the cellophane of some LPs suggest there were two different runs of the same LP?
 

Mike Lavigne

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I think they did a later second run of pressings, and then a second run of jackets. and the jackets are slightly different on the late ones. and there are dtd pressings out there without jackets.

my memory is a bit fuzzy on this, but it's something like that. the source of the second run was the dtd plate, not the tape as I recall.

this is true on a number of M & K's.
 

ack

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How do we identify the D2D? I am fairly convinced my copy is from tape, as I hear pre echo between all tracks
 

Mike Lavigne

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How do we identify the D2D? I am fairly convinced my copy is from tape, as I hear pre echo between all tracks

pre echo is more likely from groove proximity at the start of tracks than the tape print through. and the lower the noise floor of your vinyl rig the more prominent you will experience pre-echo. so it's not all together a bad thing. the quietest pressings and quietest playback will most obviously reveal it.

particularly true with dtd where they must be conservative on groove spacing to leave room for all the cuts as the plate is cut in real time.

I have pre-echo on both my 'For Duke' pressings.
 

audio.bill

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I own an original D2D copy of "For Duke" and can confirm that Christian is correct regarding the sticker being on the outer cellophane wrap. Regarding pre-echo I can also attest to the fact that I have it on other D2D LPs as well, for example the original D2D jazz release of "The Three" on the East Wind label.
 

Ron Resnick

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Does anyone know if the cellophane wrap with the sticker is the earlier run or the later run of the direct-to-disc copies? (I ask because presumably the earlier run copies may be a little bit better sound quality than the later run copies since the earlier run copies were printed when the mother stamper was newer and less worn out.)
 

rockitman

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According to disocogs, there are three issues: 1978, 1984 and 1994. Catalog RT-101 is the one you want.


For Duke ?(LP, Album, Gat) M & K RealTime Records CAT# RT-101 US 1978


For Duke ?(CD, Album, RE) Realtime Records (4) CAT# RT 1001 US 1984


For Duke ?(CD, Album) Drive Archive CAT# DE2-41035 US 1994

https://www.discogs.com/master/view/837196
 

Ron Resnick

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I believe the RT-1001 designation also reflects the LP mastered from the reel-to-reel tape recorded at the direct-to-disc session.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
According to disocogs, there are three issues: 1978, 1984 and 1994. Catalog RT-101 is the one you want.


For Duke ?(LP, Album, Gat) M & K RealTime Records CAT# RT-101 US 1978


For Duke ?(CD, Album, RE) Realtime Records (4) CAT# RT 1001 US 1984


For Duke ?(CD, Album) Drive Archive CAT# DE2-41035 US 1994

https://www.discogs.com/master/view/837196

The key for me is the M&K as they did the first one

BTW My copy came with the outer wrapper which bore the disgustingly high original sales price of $4.99
 

Hi-FiGuy

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The key for me is the M&K as they did the first one

BTW My copy came with the outer wrapper which bore the disgustingly high original sales price of $4.99

Paid $9.99 for mine RT-101(damn near flawless) about a year ago while out record shopping. $170,.00 Doh!
A lot of things I dislike about the Seattle area, but a shortage of phenomenal record stores without question is not one!
 

DaveyF

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Having bought several copies of this album when new, I can say that all of them are exactly the same as far as SQ is concerned. All of them are sourced as D2D’s. The sticker on the outside was placed there by various distributors and was not (at least in my experience) in any way a determinant of vintage. I know this as I bought copies from the late 70’s till the end of the run.
Now, if we are talking about the M&K sampler, well this is a very different animal...the tracks are clearly recorded from tape and not D2D...which is what is stated on the cover. Nonetheless, the SQ of this LP is still excellent.
I recently acquired a sealed copy of the Sampler, compared to the same tracks on the For Duke D2D...there is a very slight loss in SQ, but only in direct comparison. BTW, the track from Flamenco Fever is incredible on the Sampler, so the same track from the D2D must be amazing....which is one of the reasons that this LP is so sought after and dear.
 

Hi-FiGuy

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BTW, the track from Flamenco Fever is incredible on the Sampler, so the same track from the D2D must be amazing....which is one of the reasons that this LP is so sought after and dear.
Do people actually pay $700.00 for this album?
I have most of the D2D discs mentioned in the other thread and while they make the system sound good, I find most of the actual performances mediocre at best.
Hotstix is the one I am looking for and will keep searching for a more reasonable copy. Again a phenomenal recording of a less than performance.
 

astrotoy

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The crazy price is from two factors - 1. It is a TAS Superdisc. 2. Being D2D means it has a limited number of copies. Larry
 

DaveyF

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Do people actually pay $700.00 for this album?
I have most of the D2D discs mentioned in the other thread and while they make the system sound good, I find most of the actual performances mediocre at best.
Hotstix is the one I am looking for and will keep searching for a more reasonable copy. Again a phenomenal recording of a less than performance.

If you are talking of Flamenco Fever...and I think you are, then the typical price for this LP is around $250-$400. Maybe a sealed copy will sell for more, but not usually $700. Not to say that there aren’t numerous vendors asking $600-$700+. I just don’t see the sales going their way though.

Like astrotoy states, the Flamenco Fever LP is fairly rare and it is still one of the top D2D’s. While I own several For Duke’s and Hotstix’s, I am still looking for a Flamenco. ( I’m not willing to pay the big $$$ for this LP, as the music isn’t that interesting/enjoyable to me...)
 

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