Audiophile Societies - A True Story

NorthStar · Jul 9, 2018

? http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6236

Like in any business sector of our industries, different parallelograms sometime, @ times intersect, ...shi? happens.

Comes a time we make a choice...the best decision for ourselves, and nobody else. But then, there are somebodies, someone elses. ...Between a hard rock and a calm beach by the ocean with your fiancee.

What me personally I make of it? Nothing, dicþ zoro. ...Follow the white rabbit, the supreme being. Follow your heart, the pleasure of lust, of the lost lagoon.
____

Your turn. :b

jeff1225 · Jul 9, 2018

I saw this earlier on Reddit. Amazing.

Ron Resnick · Jul 9, 2018

Wow! I had not seen this. Thank you for posting it, Bob.

Do “we” know Mark Waldrep? He seems like a solid, intellectually honest guy!

I found Bob Levi’s approach to the controversy disappointing.

Mike Lavigne · Jul 9, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
Wow! I had not seen this. Thank you for posting it, Bob.

Do “we” know Mark Waldrep? He seems like a solid, intellectually honest guy!

I found Bob Levi’s approach to the controversy disappointing.

Mark Waldrop's attitude toward analog and dsd has always been ill-informed and simply wrong and his style of communications on those subjects has offended me. and I like/love digital and PCM.

OTOH he has every right to do what he pleases, and live with the consequences.

while I disagree with how Bob handled this situation (it should have been only a personal phone call and then move on and not make it more than it was), Mark secretly measuring is simply dirty pool. that there is an agenda. and Mark is agenda personified. and leadership of the Audio Society were right to be offended by this situation. I've been in lots of audio society meetings in my area and that sort of approach would not be tolerated (more than once) and would ruffle plenty of feathers.

Mark is a polarizing guy, and likes to poke the bear. some people enjoy that. I have never met or had any personal communications with Mark......I only know him by what I've read he has written.

being intellectually honest, and having good sense and class are two completely different things.

Ron Resnick · Jul 10, 2018

A-ha! Good to know. Thank you for the insight and background, Mike!

PeterA · Jul 10, 2018

That was an interesting read. I don't happen to know any of the people involved. I do wonder what the response would have been if Mark Waldrep had overtly requested to use his test equipment at such a demo during a meeting. Would fellow members have welcomed the introduction of measurements to verify specific claims? There seems to be some divide about how we form opinions and acquire information or opinions. If the demoes were in fact rigged in some way, is that in any way defensible by those who want to understand what a product sounds like or is actually doing? What happened to intellectual honesty and the search for knowledge?

I happed to think that Mark's responses are gracious and the questions he asks are worth considering, but as I wrote, I have no context for a greater appreciation of "character", nor do I know any of the histories that must surely be involved here.

EDIT: Waldrep. Thanks Bob.

NorthStar · Jul 10, 2018

First, "Waldrep", not 'Waldrop' (wall drop). :b

A previous article by Dr. AIX
• http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6223

What is AIX? It's an audiophile hires music record label.
• http://www.aixrecords.com/

Who is Mark Waldrep? He's a music recording engineer; stereo, multichannel, stage presence, audience presence. His audiophile music recordings are highly appreciated and respected in the audiophile community. Mark is an audiophile, a musicphile, a recordingphile, a music/audio writer, all that jazz.
___

I possess some of the music recordings he engineered, I have read several articles of his, I am familiar with his blogs, I am familiar with Mark for about twenty years or more. But I have never met him personally/physically and talked to him directly.

Overall I would say that I respect the man for what he does and say, definitively. ...For what he did and said.

I got no horse in the race. My feeling about that original link is this:
I know nothing about Bob Levi, I've only heard of him with his name popping up here and there occasionally over a wide extended period from years passed.
From what Mark shared, Bob Levi comes as the supreme authority in ultra high end audio. He sounds like the master of audio creation, like a serious man with a serious mission for serious people.
Personally, I can live without, but I respect the ones who can't.

I don't take side, I have zero bias in the audio affairs of the universe, none whatsoever.
I like the company of intelligent and relaxing and peaceful and good honest people. Mark is in that audio circle, Bob Levi I know nothing, I see nothing, I hear nothing.

cjfrbw · Jul 10, 2018

It's always fun when audiophiles scratch each others' eyes out. It's like a handbag fight at Macy's, or a pie fight with tuxedos. Every time somebody retreats to the intellectual high ground *SPLAT*.

PeterA · Jul 10, 2018

cjfrbw said:
It's always fun when audiophiles scratch each others' eyes out. It's like a handbag fight at Macy's, or a pie fight with tuxedos. Every time somebody retreats to the intellectual high ground *SPLAT*.

How would you define the intellectual high ground in this story, and who do you think seized it?

jeff1225 · Jul 10, 2018

cjfrbw said:
It's always fun when audiophiles scratch each others' eyes out. It's like a handbag fight at Macy's, or a pie fight with tuxedos. Every time somebody retreats to the intellectual high ground *SPLAT*.

I love this post.

jeff1225 · Jul 10, 2018

PeterA said:
That was an interesting read. I don't happen to know any of the people involved. I do wonder what the response would have been if Mark Waldrep had overtly requested to use his test equipment at such a demo during a meeting. Would fellow members have welcomed the introduction of measurements to verify specific claims? There seems to be some divide about how we form opinions and acquire information or opinions. If the demoes were in fact rigged in some way, is that in any way defensible by those who want to understand what a product sounds like or is actually doing? What happened to intellectual honesty and the search for knowledge?

I happed to think that Mark's responses are gracious and the questions he asks are worth considering, but as I wrote, I have no context for a greater appreciation of "character", nor do I know any of the histories that must surely be involved here.

EDIT: Waldrep. Thanks Bob.

Great question Peter. Based on the responses from Levi, I'm pretty confident that Mark would have been asked to leave. The oldest trick in the audio salesmen's play book is to slightly increase the volume when playing the more expensive piece of kit. I get a kick out of knowing that this is still being attempted in the day of the smart phone. It's like watching Mad men with them all drinking Kombutcha and using vape pens.

NorthStar · Jul 10, 2018

cjfrbw said:
It's always fun when audiophiles scratch each others' eyes out. It's like a handbag fight at Macy's, or a pie fight with tuxedos. Every time somebody retreats to the intellectual high ground *SPLAT*.

Carl, I like your good humor, your non-seriousness good common sense; you would fit right in @ the beach on a beautiful blue Sunday sky gently rocked by a calm turquoise ocean. I would have hot dogs and cold beer while suntanning my brain.

microstrip · Jul 10, 2018

What is the point of bringing dirty laundry to WBF?

NorthStar · Jul 10, 2018

What is life?

https://youtu.be/viIl2vEk6s4

Al M. · Jul 10, 2018

microstrip said:
What is the point of bringing dirty laundry to WBF?

The truth.

Lies and snake oil are anathema to happiness in this hobby.

I applaud Bob for posting this.

ack · Jul 10, 2018

I am glad this exchange was published, and thank Bob for the link. I don't know who Bob Levi is, but I don't think I care about what I read from him. It was interesting that the society has 2700 members - how active is the society and what do they do? I hope they don't waste their time attending power cord demos. And who's Sunil? I guess I won't be visiting his store.

microstrip · Jul 10, 2018

Al M. said:
(...) Lies and snake oil are anathema to happiness in this hobby. (...)

Do you expect WBF to decide what are the lies and snake oil in this hobby?

IMHO volume changes are responsible for most of the decisions taken by audiophiles in short time listening. It is part of the hobby, it is not possible to change it.

Alrainbow · Jul 10, 2018

I read a bunch of stuff bob L has wrote I never knew he was a ceo of an audio group. I have disagreed with many of his comments nicely of course. I don’t really value his views but hey this hobby has many views
I am with mike all formats done well are great.
What the writer did is wrong and right
I love he showed the shill side of it. But we all know there is plenty of it and some great stuff makes no sense but is great so hey let or go right. As for publishing it not so sure it’s cool
But I did get ROBERT watts of CHord upset over his HUGO so much so he admittedly said he hates dsd and analog and only pcm was good lol. The thread got locked my posts got deleted with his thruthful ones too. I got banned for a while haha. Money talks over views it seems. Point is we all have gone to demos or shows and are told what we hear and why it’s better for me it’s part of it.

Alrainbow · Jul 10, 2018

microstrip said:
Do you expect WBF to decide what are the lies and snake oil in this hobby?

IMHO volume changes are responsible for most of the decisions taken by audiophiles in short time listening. It is part of the hobby, it is not possible to change it.

While your. Comments have some Merritt there is also wrong. I don’t expect all to post completely truthful be it plus or negative but we need guidince some times and honesty is needed then.
Dealers don’t put good stuff together anymore and I wonder if they know how
What they do is size up how much we can spend
Do you know how many times I advise someone on doing something cheap that works and get bashed by makers or dealers of exotic stuff. It kills me. But honesty is in short supply and we shouldn’t hurt others by not posting some level of honesty

Al M. · Jul 10, 2018

Alrainbow said:
But honesty is in short supply and we shouldn’t hurt others by not posting some level of honesty

+ 1

MQA is another bunch of lies:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23788-MQA-discussion&p=495206&viewfull=1#post495206

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