Ayon Apheris vs EMT JPA66 MkIII vs CH P1+X1

Tango

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Ayon vs EMT vs CH Phono

I had been fortunate to have chances to try quite a few phonos. My purpose in trying was not to get the definitive best sound from a Phono. I like variety and have many tastes depending on my mood. I was looking to possess three phonos because I will have up to 9 arms when my fourth tt arrives, and I have a bad back that put me to acupuncturist when I have to switch my RCA’s a lot.

A few days ago, Boonyarat gave me an offer I couldn’t refuse so I made my decision to buy my third phono. It is the CH P1+X1. My other phonos are Ayon Spheris and EMT JPA66.

I actually had all these three phonos in my system before..may be for a week. That was about 8 months ago. I tested them, wrote a brief comparison in another forum.

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After the test I ordered the EMT. It took EMT almost 6 months to deliver me the phono. The EMT has 3 mc inputs and 1 mm input. Standard MKII has 3 mc inputs with different gains and load adjustment. I had them customized mine to have input 2 and 3 to have equally high gain for very low sensitivity mc carts. I don’t have a mm cart so I also bought an Airtight SUT to play with my mc cart using mm input of the EMT.

After a long wait, the EMT arrived. I was in agony using it the first week. It sounded like sh*t. I was thinking what the f**k! When I had tested before I bought, it sounded pretty darn good I made my decision to buy. I called my dealer to ask if the tubes I heard before were the same type in mine. He told me to keep burning it. I was listening to crap for a month and all the sudden it turned into Cinderella. Phew! Now I think the EMT could be the best all around “tube” phono. I never tried the Lamm LP1 though. Always want to. There is no dealer here. Ddk recommended me the LP1 but I have been getting less crazy stupid than used to be so now I can’t not pull a trigger without hearing in my system.

A few weeks before I bought the CH P1+X1 I also had a chance to play with Allnic DHT5000. I thought if Rockitman and Airbearing are using it, it has to be good. It was actually very good right out the box. Bonzo kept telling me Tang you have to change to rectifiers to KR and it would become a super phono. I happen to own a pair of KR Lampizator 5U4G too. But it would totally be a bad manner to tube roll something totally brand new,not mine, and only lended to me. So I didn’t roll. Bonzo kept insisting me, probably called me pu**y from behind too. I didn’t roll. I get to try all the goodies because dealers trust me.

Why I didn’t buy Allnic? Because I already have two tube phonos. The flavor and taste and presentation of Allnic didn’t differ enough from two tube phonos I have. It also sounded sweeter more beautiful than both Ayon and EMT. Long before this I also tried Soulution 755, Thoress phono Equalizer, Audionet, etc.

I am writing this during my lunch time. Rambling for so long still haven’t said a thing about sound of the three phonos..hehe :cool:. Ran out of time. Hope the moderator don’t delete my thread. So...to be continue...

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Kind regards,
Tang
 
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XV-1

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Tang

look forward to your thoughts over the next few months. :)
 

awsmone

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Thus seems similar to what Fremer did with ch precision and the ypsilon best of both worlds

I also have five turntables and yes you need a few phonos for that...

I now have my first tube to go with two solid state

Await you further “ramblings”

Why didn’t u try Lamm ? Because is also tube?
 

vortrex

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Ayon vs EMT vs CH Phono
Why I didn’t buy Allnic? Because I already have two tube phonos. The flavor and taste and presentation of Allnic didn’t differ enough from two tube phonos I have. It also sounded sweeter more beautiful than both Ayon and EMT. Long before this I also tried Soulution 755, Thoress phono Equalizer, Audionet, etc.

How did the Thoress compare to the others?
 

marslo

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Tango

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@XV-1. I am organizing my thoughts. So will be less rambling :eek:.

@awsmone. Lamm is difficult to find in Thailand. Don’t think anyone has LP1 here. Some hesitations on the product itself too, but not on its sonic, ie. 3 boxes, two “fixed” different gain inputs.

@vortrex. Frankly I tried the Thoress long ago and my hearing memory lapsed. I only remember I chose Ayon because it is more they are there in front of me, has more presence. Also remember the music sounded very beautiful with Thoress but a bit less energetic. The shell of the Thoress is also too thin for my big ego.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

gian60

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Congrats Tang
Now you have the best of Analog
All 3 phono are fantastic and is impossible choose one because everyone has something special
In Italy distributor of Lamm is terrible and more than 25 my friends with very good or top system never listen Lamm
 

awsmone

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Thx Tang, interesting no Lamm there

Your decision makes sense, just wondered if u had any experience

I await your less rambling thoughts, as the EMT and ch precision are both on my radar :)
 

Tango

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Thx Tang, interesting no Lamm there

Your decision makes sense, just wondered if u had any experience

I await your less rambling thoughts, as the EMT and ch precision are both on my radar :)

Dear awsmone,

I did a lot of switching b/w Ayon and P1 today. Have been jotting down notes. My secretary thought I was working hard...hehe:D
Hearing differences is easy but writing and describing in words are difficult for me. Promise no more rambling.

Tang:p
 

bonzo75

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Dear awsmone,

I did a lot of switching b/w Ayon and P1 today. Have been jotting down notes. My secretary thought I was working hard...hehe:D
Hearing differences is easy but writing and describing in words are difficult for me. Promise no more rambling.

Tang:p

Check with some people here who write first then hear accordingly. SETs are always right, for example, or the valve component.
 

leyenda

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Thread subscribed :) especially wanted to read how the ci compares to the normal voltage input...
 

Tango

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especially wanted to read how the ci compares to the normal voltage input...

This. Gianluigi can tell you without waiting.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

Tango

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Ok. Here we go. What I write reflect only what I hear in my system and of course biased by my preferences. I am not a critical listener and no good at describing sound. Best I can do is describe one in relation to another. I like all three phonos for different reasons. My system composes of all tube electronic, with exception for the P1, with Cessaro horn that no golden ears in this forum seem to like..hehe. I mostly use EMT 927/Axiom/AtlasSL to listen. The Axiom comes with silver tonearm wire run straight to phono. Interconnects are all Kuro. All equipments is grounded with Tripoints.

Presentation.

Ayon and EMT being tube phono present sound in a more similar manner to each other and in contrast to the P1. Images of Ayon are more up close and slightly bigger than both EMT and P1. The sound stage of P1 is the widest. In fact at first heard my attention was called by its expansiveness. The P1 will throw at you a big detailed picture of sound somewhat like a wide screen cinema. The depths of all three phono are the same. Images from P1 are not proportionate to its width like wide screen tv though. Vocal of a singer still has about the same size as from EMT. When I listen to Orchestra from P1, it almost feels like I see a high resolution snapshot of the whole orchestra where every piece of instruments is equally clear to my eyes (ears.) More clearly lined up than the Ayon and EMT. In many ways P1 characters resemble those of Techda AF1P I own. Very composed, organized, super quiet, everything is finely laid out, prominent. Music with many instruments sound more as a whole (coherent?) with P1 than the other two tube phonos. Feel like instruments are bound together by space between them. A bit like the feeling when I listen to Coralstone. And when the music get very busy I find the P1 more composed and hold itself together better than the Ayon and EMT. Come to think of it, the presentation of P1 is like listening to my tape front. It reminds me of playing Analog Productions Scheherazade tape. How instruments line up, the speed, snap, the details, clarity, high low extension, quietness. No significant differences comparing to vinyl 45. I will use P1 when listen to orchestra. However, I also want to contradict myself by saying when I play Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances Non allegro, I get more excited and emotional involvement with this piece using Ayon than the P1. Maybe it is the way it was recorded and placement of mics that compliment to the more upfront character of Ayon. I felt like sitting in the front few rows in front of DSO. This is a jazz person talking classical though. I don’t know crap about classical. I only listen and I know when I get moved by the musical experience.

With P1 I can easily hear the distance between a closer instrument and a deep farther down instrument way back, but yet it feels flatter than both Ayon and EMT. This is because the two tube phonos have their magic in dimensionality. Not that P1 is two dimensional but the other two are just more 3-D. Leading edges of P1 is more clearly defined while the leading edges of EMT and Ayon have more shading. When I listen to Ayon and EMT, there is so much air between instrument. Especially with small assemble jazz and chamber, the quietness of the two tube phonos, the air, the dimensionality, the pop or bloom altogether make a sensational holographic “they’re in front of you” experience. Ayon just let Jennifer Warnes visited my office, sang Famous Blue rain Coat reached out and touched my soul. While Listening to Burns Vista Social Club’s Chan Chan, I felt like the music was recorded in a more enclosed, smaller room with the EMT in contrast to a larger more open room with the P1. The Ayon and EMT are just more intimate in presentation than the P1. The tube phonos also present more rhythmic contrast. The raising of the vocal, the increase in pressure of fingers pressing piano keys, string plug, a tap on beat box. These rhythmic contrasts of different instruments pop at me with different level of energy. I am talking in degree here not all or none. So don’t go about concluding that I said P1 doesn’t has all these. At this level, it is only about a bit more or a bit less.

Tone.

This subject of tone is really about personal preferences. Interestingly, the EMT and P1 are more similar in tone. EMT is tube but it doesn’t add sweetness or makeup to the face. It is like Jessica Alba around swimming pool without a makeup and suntan oil. You get a bare beauty. Both EMT and P1 has sound palette slightly pastel in comparison to Ayon. I personally think this is a neutral tone. I would not call it liquid, yet they are far from dry. The P1 has smoother midrange and high tone - more in balance. Ayon is liquid with more forward midrange. I also don’t choose equipment that is more liquid than my Ayon because I can choose to use different carts if I want additional liquidity and sound beauty. The P1 has a fuller more balanced sound than the EMT which sounds a tad slimmer in comparison. The tone of P1 to me is most balance of the three.

I am crazy for high freq extension. I even bought the Schnerzinger piccolos for just to aid my high frequency extension and resolution. All three phonos are excellent on this regard. Both EMT and Ayon are inferior to P1 in terms of bass. The opening of bass drum Eiji Oue fanfare for the common man, never sounded more majestically low to the ground in my system before the P1 arrived. I wish my tube phonos have this kind of bass. Maybe the Lamm LP1 can do the same.

Versatility.

Ayon has two fixed gain inputs. The gain is very high it can play any low mc and could not play well with 0.5mV or above with cart like with GFS in my system. You can put restrictors to each input at the rear but I found it sounds best with none. Here is a pic of the rear of Ayon new prototype phono Gerhard made for me.

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The old one I am using looks the same. Gerhard tries to convince me the prototype sounds even more natural and better in many ways. It is brand new. No tube hours. I only have listened to it a few hours and when I don’t find the level of transparency I am used to I just stop listening. Btw, the three phonos have exceptional transparency but I think maybe the EMT beats the other two by a hair.


The EMT has four inputs as follow.

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I had mine customized the input 3 to be the same as input 2. The gain of each input can be adjusted +/- on the fly. So as loads. It comes with equalization adjustments. If you don’t set the turnover adjustment properly it could sound lean and analytical with no life. There is also Scratch Filter knob that reduce clicks and pops. It shapes off some frequencies so I don’t use it much. The EMT can also be used as line preamp.

With P1, you can adjust so many things you can ever imagine. It has computer wizard that I probably will never operate by myself. There are two current inputs and one voltage input. Gianluigi said the current inputs sound better with low impedance carts. I haven’t a/b the inputs yet but I trust his ears. I have the X1 power supply. It makes big enough difference to buy.

So which one is the best? As I said before I like them all. They all sound good in their own way in my system. You read Mr. Lavigne’s Yin Yang thread and his comments. This is quite similar to that. The difference is I chose to play with vinyl front but Mike chose to play with amps.

Kindest regards,
Tang
 
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awsmone

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Thanks Tango

Excellent summation and I felt I understood what you were hearing

So do u think if you only had one and listened to big orchestral u would choose the P1 over the EMT ?
 

Tango

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Thanks Tango

Excellent summation and I felt I understood what you were hearing

So do u think if you only had one and listened to big orchestral u would choose the P1 over the EMT ?

Yes. Probably most of the times.
 

bonzo75

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Wow Tang, superb insight. When you say CH is better on bass, is that only very low bass, or also Midbass?

Do you know when you are going to shift to do the test from another TT set up? Also if the difference in much lower output carts is larger?
 

bonzo75

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Thanks Tango

Excellent summation and I felt I understood what you were hearing

So do u think if you only had one and listened to big orchestral u would choose the P1 over the EMT ?

But given what he has written about the emotional involvement from the Ayon, it will be interesting to see what he prefers for pieces like, say, Mahler 3 and 7, or Schubert's great
 

gian60

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And also CH take the influence of Ayon pre,while Ayon phono is a perfect match and synergy with Ayon pre
 

gian60

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So while Mike has to try the Lamm pre with ML3,Tang has to try CH L1 with P1

AND WE NEVER FINISH,and spent too much money
 

bonzo75

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And also CH take the influence of Ayon pre,while Ayon phono is a perfect match and synergy with Ayon pre

+1. I understand that CH phono is supposed to be better with the CH pre from Tang's previous demo
 

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