A small upgrade in amplification

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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This is a point that is not discussed as much as it should be. In a very good system, it is often the case that for everything you play, there is typically one ideal volume where everything "falls into place so perfectly". This is especially true when you are trying to capture "you are there" magic. Not sure why this is but I suspect the answer is related to overall frequency response that can vary slightly with volume due to the Fletcher-Munson curve which is a function of gain of the system during playback. There's often one point at least to me, where things just sound more "musically right" as far as overall frequency balance. One or two clicks of the preamp one way or the other can make all the difference in this "realism" factor and thus the difference between a listening experience that can go from "really nice" to a "wow" . No doubt, small differences in volume can contribute to the right "focus" much like a camera lens, at least for me.
I have often wondered whether this 'ideal level' also relates to the room and its ability to hit an 'ideal' level/range of volume without overloading. A level that is as close to creating a live performance-like simulacrum in the room given its own ability to handle volume/air movement.
 

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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I think we must have similar taste, what with CJ, and now Esoteric digital! What model Esoteric are you playing (sorry if you explained in another thread, but I can't find it.) I;m thinking of one the one box Esoteric SA-05 I think it was ---- was blown away by the sound. Would like to know your impressions of the Esoteric, if you could point me to your previous thread. Many thanks!
G'day BG,

Yes, I'm using the Esoteric K-07XS digital player. It's an outstanding unit! Well capable of some serious level of detail and fine resolution once it has run-in properly, which takes an awful long time. The earlier versions were the k07, then k07x & now k07xs, which is the latest third generation in Esoteric digital tech. It has all the goodies of their top of the line but only one high tech designed tranny. Whereas the top of the line K01XD or the K01 has four trannys. That's serious levels of pure current and highly stable power supplies.

I had access to the higher grade models, such as the K05XS and K03XS, however the main importer for Esoteric advice that the extra spend won't give me a 40% performance improvement, which is my personal benchmark. Rather in-between 15-20% thereabouts. The most significant upgrade is from the K07XS to the K01 Grandisio XD. So, in order for me to get any better and surpass this performance I should consider their clock unit which is the G0X2 or something. Over here it goes for 26grand! Just for their clock, and so I auditioned it, and oh my what a superb combination it was!

Anyway, he advised that once this thing settles in nicely and gets going there's no turning back, other than the clock. The Dac chip sets and processors are nearly similar all the way up, it's this clock that makes the biggest difference.

The K07XS also has several digital filters plus a superb transport mechanism and pick-up unit, which contributes to the difference between previous versions. The DAC is also top notch and when used with digital files, either through it's USB port or other digital inputs, any of these files can be converted to DSD quality with very high resolution. Although I'm not using the unit this way, since I'm using CDs and SACD's, there was one mad digital chap who came over to my place and demoed it with his digital formats, it was mighty fine! I guess that's something to consider in the future... if LP's and CDs were to vanish.

Anyway, at the moment I'm overwhelmed by the performance of the K07XS, and each time it plays tunes, it gets better and better, simply superb!

Speaking of transport mechanism, I did try out the top line Luxman D10x, which I liked. It's transport mechanism was much quieter than the Esoteric and one of those pretty amazing digital playback systems that is quite captivating. However, there were certain areas that the Esoteric gear offered more of in my particular set-up, such as extended airy highs, deeper bass and a wonderful midrange, that is pure synergy with CJ's midrange, as you already know. So with that, I didn't want to upset or change that particular type of sound, so I just prefer the Esoteric. The Luxman would have been superb in a second system, carefully matched with other gear that comprises of SET amplifiers driving Avant Garde's Duo XD's, that would have been outstanding!

BTW, which Esoteric have you got?

Enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ
 
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Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Yes, the camera lense affect I discovered over a period of time, mostly with CJ gear driving Quad Stats full range. Then CJ's top of the line Premier 8A monoblocks driving Apogee Diva's and the Maggie's 20.1's at the time. Going back then, I realised it is definitely not necessary to crank things up in order to be fully immersed in the presentation of the recording. With just the right levels, seating position and speakers angled in, you can focus this phenomenon just like a lense and everything falls into place perfectly.

It's not an easy thing to achieve but once you get it right, it's a marvellous thing!

I've been to numerous places and room setups where the owners love to blast the roof off, to me it's pointless, although the dynamics are great, the whole presentation is not enjoyable to me at least. I need to relax and be totally immersed and engaged in the music, not just volume thumping, that's not for me. Plus my listening sessions start only after 10pm / midnight and go well beyond 4am... with the camera lense affect, to get that full musical experience is awe-inspiring!
Just love it!

Cheers maties, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Big WOOF! RJ
 

bgiliberti

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2012
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G'day BG,

Yes, I'm using the Esoteric K-07XS digital player. It's an outstanding unit! Well capable of some serious level of detail and fine resolution once it has run-in properly, which takes an awful long time. The earlier versions were the k07, then k07x & now k07xs, which is the latest third generation in Esoteric digital tech. It has all the goodies of their top of the line but only one high tech designed tranny. Whereas the top of the line K01XD or the K01 has four trannys. That's serious levels of pure current and highly stable power supplies.

I had access to the higher grade models, such as the K05XS and K03XS, however the main importer for Esoteric advice that the extra spend won't give me a 40% performance improvement, which is my personal benchmark. Rather in-between 15-20% thereabouts. The most significant upgrade is from the K07XS to the K01 Grandisio XD. So, in order for me to get any better and surpass this performance I should consider their clock unit which is the G0X2 or something. Over here it goes for 26grand! Just for their clock, and so I auditioned it, and oh my what a superb combination it was!

Anyway, he advised that once this thing settles in nicely and gets going there's no turning back, other than the clock. The Dac chip sets and processors are nearly similar all the way up, it's this clock that makes the biggest difference.

The K07XS also has several digital filters plus a superb transport mechanism and pick-up unit, which contributes to the difference between previous versions. The DAC is also top notch and when used with digital files, either through it's USB port or other digital inputs, any of these files can be converted to DSD quality with very high resolution. Although I'm not using the unit this way, since I'm using CDs and SACD's, there was one mad digital chap who came over to my place and demoed it with his digital formats, it was mighty fine! I guess that's something to consider in the future... if LP's and CDs were to vanish.

Anyway, at the moment I'm overwhelmed by the performance of the K07XS, and each time it plays tunes, it gets better and better, simply superb!

Speaking of transport mechanism, I did try out the top line Luxman D10x, which I liked. It's transport mechanism was much quieter than the Esoteric and one of those pretty amazing digital playback systems that is quite captivating. However, there were certain areas that the Esoteric gear offered more of in my particular set-up, such as extended airy highs, deeper bass and a wonderful midrange, that is pure synergy with CJ's midrange, as you already know. So with that, I didn't want to upset or change that particular type of sound, so I just prefer the Esoteric. The Luxman would have been superb in a second system, carefully matched with other gear that comprises of SET amplifiers driving Avant Garde's Duo XD's, that would have been outstanding!

BTW, which Esoteric have you got?

Enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ
Hi RJ. Thanks so much for the helpful response. I have the 05xs on order. I auditioned the 07xs, but since the 05xs is only a $1000 more in the US ($8500), I figured I'd go for it -- I'm not even sure what the difference is -- maybe a slightly better clock? I figured it can't be worse! I listened to a fair number of one box players in the $5K to $7K range, but the only one that was truly a quantum leap over my Marantz 8004 was the 07xs.. It's a great match with the CJ/Harbeth 30s combo. To be honest, $8500 was a bit more than I wanted to spend, but there it is. Will report back once it's up and ready.
 
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Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Nice one on the K05XS BG, this will be a significant improvement over the Marantz. The K05XS has an improved transport mechanism which is used in the K01. It will serve as a true highend DAC as well, if you were to go full digital route... these new digital players are very versatile from Esoteric, and most of all a fantastic combination with CJ amplification. You'll absolutely love it!

Cheers mate, have a good one.
Enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
 

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Hey BG,
Just checking if you received the Esoteric K05xs as yet?
Hope all is well and you're enjoying those fine tunes!

BTW, I posted some info on those FIM discs, I highly recommend these for an extraordinary performance on the Esoteric gear, it's just superb! You'll be amazed.

I'm sure on other high quality digital playback systems these FIM discs will sound fantastic and they ought to, especially given the price they go for over here, nearly $100 each. Might as well enjoy to the fullest.
Cheers mate, keep me posted on your K05xs.
Best, RJ
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
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This is a point that is not discussed as much as it should be. In a very good system, it is often the case that for everything you play, there is typically one ideal volume where everything "falls into place so perfectly". This is especially true when you are trying to capture "you are there" magic. Not sure why this is but I suspect the answer is related to overall frequency response that can vary slightly with volume due to the Fletcher-Munson curve which is a function of gain of the system during playback. There's often one point at least to me, where things just sound more "musically right" as far as overall frequency balance. One or two clicks of the preamp one way or the other can make all the difference in this "realism" factor and thus the difference between a listening experience that can go from "really nice" to a "wow" . No doubt, small differences in volume can contribute to the right "focus" much like a camera lens, at least for me.
I totally agree. And my sense is others do not pay enough attention to this vital setting. I note every volume level with a post it on each CD. Easy to do with my pre. Can't imagine doing it any other way.
 

Big Dog RJ

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,242
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Melbourne
G'day maties, from down unda.

We're back in lockdown again, thanks to two silly buggers running around in Sydney spreading the virus being positive and ruined our run of Melbourne having zero cases, until these two fools showed up in our state!
On the plus side, we're still flat out at work due to our business trade being essential. So, I've got these two days off and enjoying some fine tunes!

Just wanted to state that these amplifiers have really shifted dimensions after the full SE upgrades completed in March. It's truly awe-inspiring to experience the improvements every minute, every hour, and the three critical areas of improvement can be clearly defined:

1. Resolution and imaging- full 3D imaging and presence, it's uncanny! Very lifelike performance, especially on jazz ensembles, vocals, strings, piano and so on, simply superb!

2. Spacial cues- are even more detailed, the formation of the notes, the rise, decay, and acceleration are effortless, lighting speed with superb agility and control, no overhang and not overbearing whatsoever. Supremely Fantastic!

3. Overall quietness- provides a much greater depth in soundstage, darker background and every inch of the presentation is captured, nothing left out I would say. This really stands out, thus allowing you to listen at softer levels with the full presentation, no need to turn up things. However, when things are turned up, oh boy! Get ready for an absolute thrill, what a rush, and surge of energy, as if a lightning bolt strikes. Marvellous! The last time I heard this sort of attack and sheer speed were from Alsyvox. Another superb panel type speaker.

So, I can now very clearly concur that the three main parts upgrades are a must if you wanted to achieve some serious level of improvement, to get your monies worth:
1. KT120 output tubes with Genalex Gold Lions as driver / phase inverter tubes, (of course having the Mullard M8080 as the input tube).
2. Teflon caps
3. Vishay resistors

If these three items are not part of the upgrades then don't do them because the overall quality would be half way there...
I believe those Teflons combined with the Vishays contributes to the most significant improvement in quality presentation of the way the recording was intended. It's really like a true reference. I don't really see anything further in terms of investment, which also included a few other tweaks/mods but this to me is SOTA! Can't get any better unless it were the top of the line ART series amplifiers.

I guess that's where the serious level of expenditure takes over. If anyone is considering SE upgrades on any of their CJ gear, just make sure CJ tech/service includes Teflons and Vishays, and a full array of both! This is mighty fine indeed!

Cheers to all, and do enjoy those fine tunes!
Big WOOF!
RJ
 
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