Best W10 Roon Core set-up? Nucleus+ can't handel my library...

Pb Blimp

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Why should we think so?

IMHO no one has proved (and will never be able to prove) that Ethernet is intrinsically better than USB, although in our particular DACs we can have a preference. In the end all depends on the implementation, both formats are bit perfect.

First, the word "prove" does not apply to anything measured subjectively and of course outcome is a function of implementation. However, that does not mean that you don't start with a design that maximizes the probability the outcome will be considered preferable to most ears. The science behind jitter and grounding noise reduction which is achieved through direct ethernet-to-I2S in the DAC which ensures close physical proximity to the dac clock is compelling to me. That's all I was saying.
 

Pb Blimp

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Oct 30, 2017
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You're welcome! And yes the interface of choice will be optional. The "framework" however is 90% of the system. It's similar to the mentioned MSB select where you can choose which input modules you'd like to have. They're also easy to change later on should you so desire for whatever reason.

Now that is exciting !!!!


Maybe we should change "bit perfect" to "noise perfect" :) All joking aside, I agree it all depends on the implementation.

EXACTLY!
 

microstrip

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First, the word "prove" does not apply to anything measured subjectively and of course outcome is a function of implementation. However, that does not mean that you don't start with a design that maximizes the probability the outcome will be considered preferable to most ears. The science behind jitter and grounding noise reduction which is achieved through direct ethernet-to-I2S in the DAC which ensures close physical proximity to the dac clock is compelling to me. That's all I was saying.

First, prove can be applied to subjective - if properly measured and analyzed in well defined conditions. Subject for a separate thread?

Can I ask what "science" are you addressing? Is it "subjective science" :) ? Do you have any idea of how the "ethernet-to-I2S "is really implemented? Why should it sound better than a properly implemented "USB-to-I2S"?

If your data for probability analysis is taken from opinions of a very few enthusiastic owners in audio groups I must say that it is not scientific at all! :)

As my DAC combo has an Ethernet renderer, reading that this way of getting data is superior is appreciated and it gives me some momentary comfort - but I know that such general claim is scientifically unsupported.
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
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140
USA
First, prove can be applied to subjective - if properly measured and analyzed in well defined conditions. Subject for a separate thread?

Can I ask what "science" are you addressing? Is it "subjective science" :) ? Do you have any idea of how the "ethernet-to-I2S "is really implemented? Why should it sound better than a properly implemented "USB-to-I2S"?

If your data for probability analysis is taken from opinions of a very few enthusiastic owners in audio groups I must say that it is not scientific at all! :)

As my DAC combo has an Ethernet renderer, reading that this way of getting data is superior is appreciated and it gives me some momentary comfort - but I know that such general claim is scientifically unsupported.

The definition of subjective is that it is something uniquely personal. I am completely lost by you logic on that one, but you are right--not for this thread.

I rarely get my audio science from forums. I prefer scientists and engineers in the business. I am pretty much a simpleton, but believe my buddy Jonny Gullman when he tells me the elimination of packet noise, ground plain noise, and clocking proximity is a big deal cuz jitter is the root of most (all) evil. A design that starts with fewer inherent problems doesn't need to be fixed-up to be good. Starting right maximizes probably of success. IMO all else held constant (as we say) the best USB can be is equal to ethernet direct.

Not that it matters, but in the long run the market tends to get it right and I certainly don't see new and amazing USB and SPIDF dacs driving the business paradigm.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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The definition of subjective is that it is something uniquely personal. I am completely lost by you logic on that one, but you are right--not for this thread.

I rarely get my audio science from forums. I prefer scientists and engineers in the business. I am pretty much a simpleton, but believe my buddy Jonny Gullman when he tells me the elimination of packet noise, ground plain noise, and clocking proximity is a big deal cuz jitter is the root of most (all) evil. A design that starts with fewer inherent problems doesn't need to be fixed-up to be good. Starting right maximizes probably of success. IMO all else held constant (as we say) the best USB can be is equal to ethernet direct.

Not that it matters, but in the long run the market tends to get it right and I certainly don't see new and amazing USB and SPIDF dacs driving the business paradigm.

Although I respect designers and manufacturers, "believing" them is not enough for me. IMHO our ignorance concerning the correlation between subjective and objective data in digital obliges me to consider most of the technical exposition as descriptive, nothing else. Surely technical bias is a valid form of bias!

The DCS Vivaldi had the luck of having been carefully measured by Stereophile - those excellent graphs please the souls of their owners.:cool: I would love to see the same measurements of the MSB Select II - but just by morbid audiophile curiosity, I am persuaded that they would not help me to know anything about its sound quality.
 

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