It’s all v well talking about the Grands, but since only 25 pairs were made, only the very best ie Henk’s uniquely modded pair is worth talking about, surely in the real world FRs are the practical choice?
The best Dipoles, Dipoles that can do bass?
- Thread starter infinitely baffled
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What's real world? IB has the budget and the space to be specific about Henk's grands. But otherwise, yes FR are the practical choice.
IMHO someone getting the Grand or the FR must think he is getting a speaker system, not a speaker. Tuning it to room and current system is a job that will take years for someone who is not trained to four way active systems.
Some years ago, after reading some enthusiastic reports on Paul Stubblebine speakers - active M6 Magico's using eight Bottlehead triode amplifiers with an heavily modified Marchand active crossover - I considered such system. Fortunately Paul kindly explained me the situation - it had taken him years to get this system and such project was beyond the capability of a part-time audiophile.
Also that when we listen to an unique system in a room we are not just listening to the speakers - we are also listening to the expertise of the person who did the fine tuning along a long time, and in this case is a real expert in Apogees.
This to tell that budget and space are not enough - will, dedication, enthusiasm, expertise and lot of time are needed for such a project. And specially endurance to resist to the dull moments when everything sounds wrong!
Yep, it’s all “can do, no problem” in the uber hifi world.
Like having a limited edition, on the edge Ferrari, and hoping the Italian boys have it sorted, and will always be available on the other end of the phone when the thing doesn’t start in the morning, or overheats in the first 5 miles.
Like having a limited edition, on the edge Ferrari, and hoping the Italian boys have it sorted, and will always be available on the other end of the phone when the thing doesn’t start in the morning, or overheats in the first 5 miles.
As you suspect Spirit, I'm not sure i have the patience, or inclination
A quick word about me. I'm not a happy fiddler. Not someone who likes time consuming rituals before listening, not someone who can happily endure when things are not sounding right....rather, i am a music lover, and i use music to tame the savage beast within. Or to put it another way, i do get impatient when technical issues come between me and my musical connection.
I am totally ok with getting someone to come here and set up, calibrate, tweak etc. But once complete, it needs to continue to perform optimally without regular visits..... I dont really enjoy the process because i dont really like having strangers in my home, unless i can smite them with beer gin, ganja and psilocybin and we all get after it.
Or put another way, some folks enjoy hifi because they enjoy playing with equipment, wheras some are just in it to get as close to the music as possible. I am most def the latter ?
May i ask, are the 12" subs the only difference twixt the Grandes and the next model down?
I think my 18" velodyne subs could certainly cover the bottom octave
A quick word about me. I'm not a happy fiddler. Not someone who likes time consuming rituals before listening, not someone who can happily endure when things are not sounding right....rather, i am a music lover, and i use music to tame the savage beast within. Or to put it another way, i do get impatient when technical issues come between me and my musical connection.
I am totally ok with getting someone to come here and set up, calibrate, tweak etc. But once complete, it needs to continue to perform optimally without regular visits..... I dont really enjoy the process because i dont really like having strangers in my home, unless i can smite them with beer gin, ganja and psilocybin and we all get after it.
Or put another way, some folks enjoy hifi because they enjoy playing with equipment, wheras some are just in it to get as close to the music as possible. I am most def the latter ?
May i ask, are the 12" subs the only difference twixt the Grandes and the next model down?
I think my 18" velodyne subs could certainly cover the bottom octave
So just to understand, i could buy one of the pairs of Grands apparently available (according to hifi shark), and send them to Henk for the full treatment?
How long would that take ? Or cost?
Would the result, once set up by Henk, remain consistent?
Do the Grands offer anything, other than the 12" subs, that the lesser models lack?
Well in this context, the real world constraint has ten thumbs, limited patience and bipolar
And Ked, who is going to sit down w IB and get those multiple amps and crossovers sorted JUST right for him and his room?
Even the FRs need 3 lots of amps, and two crossovers to integrate with each other.
The Divas need two lots of amps at least, and the crossover settings I heard on the pair I demoed, so called expertly set up, were all wrong and the owner has spent more than a year trying to get right.
Yep, I can see IB just loving all this.
My advice? IB, get a pr Graz Duettas modded by the U.K. restorer to User211 spec, get him to personally install and finagle it in real time in yr room, stick w your Boulder amp and tube pre, and just be bowled over - I’ve never heard home audio plumb the depths, present wall of bass or spine tingling dynamics, like Justin’s Duettas.
At 5’ high x 2.5’ wide, they’ll fit into most domestic environments.
IB, User211/Justin is the man to speak to, he at least can give you the benefit of his experience as a daily user.
And I can vouch for the sincerity and enthusiasm of Jon, the U.K. based modder.
Even the FRs need 3 lots of amps, and two crossovers to integrate with each other.
The Divas need two lots of amps at least, and the crossover settings I heard on the pair I demoed, so called expertly set up, were all wrong and the owner has spent more than a year trying to get right.
Yep, I can see IB just loving all this.
My advice? IB, get a pr Graz Duettas modded by the U.K. restorer to User211 spec, get him to personally install and finagle it in real time in yr room, stick w your Boulder amp and tube pre, and just be bowled over - I’ve never heard home audio plumb the depths, present wall of bass or spine tingling dynamics, like Justin’s Duettas.
At 5’ high x 2.5’ wide, they’ll fit into most domestic environments.
IB, User211/Justin is the man to speak to, he at least can give you the benefit of his experience as a daily user.
And I can vouch for the sincerity and enthusiasm of Jon, the U.K. based modder.
This rubbish is based on what? Do you want to discuss speakers or back someone? You are totally silly Marc, you haven't heard a single apogee except one duetta. Anyway out of your silliness to keep commenting on what you have not heard.
Justin himself will tell you he hasn't heard a grand, FR, diva, or scintilla, and that Jon hasn't modded a FR or grand. Henk has dive 10 FR and 6 scintillas to add to numerous divas and duetta. Why are you even in this discussion
Justin himself will tell you he hasn't heard a grand, FR, diva, or scintilla, and that Jon hasn't modded a FR or grand. Henk has dive 10 FR and 6 scintillas to add to numerous divas and duetta. Why are you even in this discussion
Divas run fine on just one stereo amp...heard them sound great this way many times...
FRs and Grands will require expertise to setup correctly. IMO, the Diva sounds better than the FR because it is a lot more amp friendly and then you can put better sounding amps on them. A well sorted Diva, Duetta signature/Studio Grand or Centaur Major are probably the best, real world, non-tweaker, Apogees to consider.
Maybe Henk's got great sounding Grands...didn't realize they were for sale. It is so adjustable that I think one will need to do a lot of adjusting to the room it goes into to maximize it's potential. Not sure if Henk will be that helpful beyond showing how all the adjustments work.
I keep asking myself the same question about you, Ked...big Apogee guy that you are
Well at least I comment on things I have heard. You owned calipers, comment on Henk's grands. Owned tiny tots, comment on horns. Owned Nat symbiosis integrated, comment on Nat magma. Owned KR integrated, comment on kronzilla. You should buy a TD 124, then you and DDk will be the only two people who are eligible to comment on the thorens reference
Gavin are you basing this on having owned the birds nest Alon Phalanx?
I heard them at a friend's place around five years ago.No comment.
If you must have Apogee,hear them first.
It would demonstrate what they can do with regard to bass pressure.100 db at 3 metres would require 8000 watts.
Bill measured 116 db at 4 metres driven by 40 watts(my system).
If I recall User211 uses 200w Jolida 211 amps. I have heard them on duetta signatures and it was ok,not superb.
Should the above be Mark's ultimate bass producing duo of all time,then his references are somewhat shallower than mine.
The mathematics are as simple as the tools required to measure the output.
As they say,do the numbers.
Kind regards,(starting sentences with and)tuae maxima culpa.G.
I heard them at a friend's place around five years ago.No comment.
If you must have Apogee,hear them first.
It would demonstrate what they can do with regard to bass pressure.100 db at 3 metres would require 8000 watts.
Bill measured 116 db at 4 metres driven by 40 watts(my system).
If I recall User211 uses 200w Jolida 211 amps. I have heard them on duetta signatures and it was ok,not superb.
Should the above be Mark's ultimate bass producing duo of all time,then his references are somewhat shallower than mine.
The mathematics are as simple as the tools required to measure the output.
As they say,do the numbers.
Kind regards,(starting sentences with and)tuae maxima culpa.G.
Forget about it. This is not a forum or call center affair. It is a subjective hobby and reality is very different from posts. No one will fly to our system next day on call forever in such deals.
Jet lagged perhaps? I have owned Calipers and many other very large planars. Heard Grands, FRs, Scintillas (unmodded and modded), Divas, Duettas (unmodded and modded), Centaur Majors, Studio Grands, Stages, MiniGrands, Centaurs, Centaur minors...well just about all of them actually. I own horns, period. Heard dozens of others. Your opinion about the size is irrelevant.
I have owned NAT Symbiosis and Plasma preamp and heard the whole line of 211 based SE models at length as well as the Transmitter. Commented on Magma only to say it sounded good in Odeon room in Munich...what's your point? Owned KR Integrated, sold three Kronzillas (when I was a dealer) and wrote a review on the KR DM monoblocks (before I was a dealer and had them for three months) for Positive Feedback and the P135 preamp, not to mention hearing the Kronzilla SX at Christoph's many times. Tried them on dozens of speakers, therefore I know them probably as well as anyone on this forum.
So, far you haven't mentioned one thing I have commented on that I haven't heard at great length...sheesh what is wrong with you???
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