The best Dipoles, Dipoles that can do bass?

infinitely baffled

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Well I returned from a listening session today - this time powered by NAT Magma in triode mode so about 50 watts. I have never heard these on Jungle / drum and bass etc so we kicked it off there. My goodness, I think you are going to laugh your head off when you hear what they do with this genre. The General has a massive listening room with high ceilings and they severely pressurised the room with no issue at all sounding like a PA system in hifidelity. The bass was hilarious - doesn’t sound like any subwoofer I heard as it is so fast and integrated with the rest yet potent. I am very jealous!!

:cool:

Yes this is precisely what Alain said to me. I believe he also supplied the NATTs.
Was this from the Vyger?
Alain was babbling about that too


No i have to confess horns and single driver speakers have never really been on my radar before. So i certainly dont know my Feastrex from a AER..basically Alain arrived home and rang me spluttering about what he'd heard, he knows my system and tastes better than anyone so i did a bit of research, and liked what i read.
The night before I'd spent reading about Feastrex drivers and had gained the impression they were top of the tree.
Any pointers, suggestions for reading? :confused:
 

infinitely baffled

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Ha - do you know anything about the AER drivers at all? Feastrex are great but no BD4.

There's no mention of the BD4 on AER's website. Is it a new development?
The BD3 are certainly a fraction the price of the top Feastrex offering, but not nearly as sexy
But i have the distinct feeling im making a fool of myself, so please, correct me? :)
 

spiritofmusic

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IB, have a chance soon to hear the Pnoes w the BD4 drivers, powered by Nat Magmas and Thomas Mayer 46 amps.
Tbh, I’m fearful LOL - these may so rock my world that I’ll want to throw my Zus out when I get home the same day.

I’m going to take the same couple of albums that sounded so good thru Cessaro Liszt horns. I have a pretty good aural memory for that day, the comparison should be absolutely fascinating.

All off a Vyger tt/Red Sparrow cart.
Can’t wait!

I remain pretty excited for your choice, I think you’ve made a pretty astute decision.
 

morricab

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Yup listened to those today. Very briefly. Will same again tomorrow.

WRT the Gobel Aeon mentioned earlier. The 2018 setup isn't as good as 2017's offering. The speakers don't have the space or the subs and they need both to thrive I suspect.

Also the Divin does scale well and sounds effortless but it is not very exciting. I was disappointed today despite the fact in quite a few parameters it does very well.

There is something very good about the Aeon's flat square driver panel I think, given it looks sort of unique.

Does anyone know anything about it?

For me I would go for the Aeon's and some Gobel subs over the Divin if I had a big room to allow something like the 2017 setup to be realised. With a lot of rear space they do very well with subs planted way back as per 2017.

Agree about the Divin...it did a lot right but somehow didn't inspire...other than awe at the size!! The other Goebel though I thought sounded poor. Did you get a chance to hear the Supravox open baffle prototype? They were in a little shoebox room on the ground floor. With a Line Magnetic SET they sounded GOOD and are only going to be around 10K euro. That speaker is dipole except the tweeter, which only radiates forward. Overall sensitivity was like 95db as well.
 

infinitely baffled

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IB, have a chance soon to hear the Pnoes w the BD4 drivers, powered by Nat Magmas and Thomas Mayer 46 amps.
Tbh, I’m fearful LOL - these may so rock my world that I’ll want to throw my Zus out when I get home the same day.

I’m going to take the same couple of albums that sounded so good thru Cessaro Liszt horns. I have a pretty good aural memory for that day, the comparison should be absolutely fascinating.

All off a Vyger tt/Red Sparrow cart.
Can’t wait!

I remain pretty excited for your choice, I think you’ve made a pretty astute decision.

Cheers buddy.....all these endorsements have really got me excited.
Be sure to tell us your impressions?
 

infinitely baffled

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It's a beautiful day here in the UK. So here's a beautiful tune for a sunny day



 

infinitely baffled

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Something with a bit more menace


 

bonzo75

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It's a beautiful day here in the UK. So here's a beautiful tune for a sunny day

It's not. I woke up before 4 am to go to Munich, then that night the guys wanted to hang out late so sleepy at 1 am, and then on the way back due to extreme weather the flight was delayed so I reached home today morning at 3. That's 3 nights in a row. Justin's flight got cancelled and he has not yet reached the UK
 

Audiophile Bill

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:cool:

Yes this is precisely what Alain said to me. I believe he also supplied the NATTs.
Was this from the Vyger?
Alain was babbling about that too


No i have to confess horns and single driver speakers have never really been on my radar before. So i certainly dont know my Feastrex from a AER..basically Alain arrived home and rang me spluttering about what he'd heard, he knows my system and tastes better than anyone so i did a bit of research, and liked what i read.
The night before I'd spent reading about Feastrex drivers and had gained the impression they were top of the tree.
Any pointers, suggestions for reading? :confused:

Hi Baffled,

Yes this was on Vyger Indian. I just acquired a Vyger myself - please see my thread in the turntable forum. I have never heard analogue as good in my room as I am getting - utterly sota turntable. Definitely recommend checking one out!

In terms of BD4 - that is a driver that features in Pnoe and Axjet only - very big step up on a BD3. I have listened to a lot of single full range drivers for last 6 months straight including Voxativ, Stamm and AER. The BD4 is crazy good and very even handed - also can take enormous power versus say a Boxatic that would just rip up.
 

infinitely baffled

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It's not. I woke up before 4 am to go to Munich, then that night the guys wanted to hang out late so sleepy at 1 am, and then on the way back due to extreme weather the flight was delayed so I reached home today morning at 3. That's 3 nights in a row. Justin's flight got cancelled and he has not yet reached the UK

Aw sorry to hear that Ked.
Let me soothe your troubled brow

 

infinitely baffled

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infinitely baffled

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Hi Baffled,

Yes this was on Vyger Indian. I just acquired a Vyger myself - please see my thread in the turntable forum. I have never heard analogue as good in my room as I am getting - utterly sota turntable. Definitely recommend checking one out!

In terms of BD4 - that is a driver that features in Pnoe and Axjet only - very big step up on a BD3. I have listened to a lot of single full range drivers for last 6 months straight including Voxativ, Stamm and AER. The BD4 is crazy good and very even handed - also can take enormous power versus say a Boxatic that would just rip up.

I will take a peak at your Vyger thread
Yes it is the BD4 version I'm going for
 

Audiophile Bill

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Zero000

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Agree about the Divin...it did a lot right but somehow didn't inspire...other than awe at the size!! The other Goebel though I thought sounded poor. Did you get a chance to hear the Supravox open baffle prototype? They were in a little shoebox room on the ground floor. With a Line Magnetic SET they sounded GOOD and are only going to be around 10K euro. That speaker is dipole except the tweeter, which only radiates forward. Overall sensitivity was like 95db as well.

You couldn't sit far away enough from it for the panel to integrate with the dynamic drivers. The room was a joke. No way it could perform. Shame.

Missed the Supravox.
 

Priaptor

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You couldn't sit far away enough from it for the panel to integrate with the dynamic drivers. The room was a joke. No way it could perform. Shame.

Missed the Supravox.

I wasn’t at the show but heard enough to shake my head. I have the new Aeon Fine in my listening room and it is the most engaging speaker I have ever heard. It’s setup properly, totally disappears and it sounds like it was a real sh-t show at Munich by comparison. as The “ second Gobel Room” wasn’t a Gobel room but a Vitus room.

Personally, I never would have allowed my new speaker to have been shown the way I heard it was BUT that’s me.

Unfortunately people judge based on these shows as time is limited to audition it all and shows have come to provide the end user a first step forward if they are looking for new.

I think the Gobel people learned a lesson based on the feedback.
 

Zero000

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See your pix and raise you a Munich version...LoL
View attachment 40882

I thought the mid range and treble performance of this speaker was outstanding for a cone. Very high resolution for a cone with outstanding clarity. Had a long chat with the speaker designer. He reckons they can do 32 Hz.

However, I played Etherwood's "Begin by letting go" on the speaker, then went to the Bohne room and played the same track. The Bohne room's presentation of the bass was so radically different it was crazy, with two huge subs and large cones on the main speakers. The short ribbons in the Bohne were a little edgy by comparison, certainly not as good as Graz's Duetta MRT ribbons for the Duetta.

So I think that drive unit is seriously great, but one has to be realistic about what it can achieve when it comes to bass in a horn design like this. Regular large cones will and do kill it for bass weight and extension.

The true full range one drive unit speaker remains a dream. But this drive unit impressed the hell out of me.
 

infinitely baffled

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Very very interesting. And exciting.
There's a number of opinions on whether i will still need my subs for the bottom octave.
I guess we'll have to suck it and see
 

infinitely baffled

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Since the title of this thread was about Dipoles, I've asked Joe Cohen of Lotus Group USA, manufacturer of the Granada open baffle loudspeakers, to come along and introduce himself and his loudspeakers.

He's aware of my decision regarding the Pnoes, but i remain interested in Open Baffle loudspeakers that can do bass, and since he has some interesting solutions i felt it might make for a useful resource to have him contribute here.
 

Zero000

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Very very interesting. And exciting.
There's a number of opinions on whether i will still need my subs for the bottom octave.
I guess we'll have to suck it and see

I'd say it depends what music you like. Organ, reggae and high impact electronica and you'd need something after the initial thrill of that drive unit's mid/treble performance tells you you have no real deep bass.

I believe there is some trace of the material used for the horn causing some degree of colouration in the sound. But that's true of a lot of loudspeakers. It's there but it isn't that bad.

I think you'll really enjoy them. I wouldn't mind a few months with them I have to say. They grew on me as the demo went on.
 

Joe Cohen

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Thank you very much for the invitation.

GranadaSm_2018.jpg

In creating the Lotus Group Granada loudspeaker our aim was to join the qualities of a most sublime full range driver with real world bass performance. Its open baffle design affords ease of room interaction and a natural and organic presentation of the sound stage. Active bi-amplification provides a direct path between amplifier and driver. Multiple measurements were taken in our quasi-anechoic chamber to determine optimal slopes, adjust power response and to maximize linearity. Its room correction capability insures perfect mating to any room, and allows for fine tuning based on listener preference while remaining entirely within correct parameters. Our custom, hands-on calibration is included with installation.

We were honored to have the Granada included in the Absolute Sound’s, ‘Illustrated History of High End Audio’, Loudspeaker Edition.

Forum members who find themselves in or near Northern California Wine Country are welcome to stop by for an audition.
 

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