GIK Acoustics N23 5” Quadratic Diffusors

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,605
5,413
1,278
E. England
Good morning everyone.
I’m just having breakfast and ruminating on possibly treating my room with these.
Where could they take me if I already appear to have a room that’s very expressive, linear and well behaved?

My room and system have come together in such a way that I’ve even decided to eliminate the GIK 1st and 2nd reflection points 242 absorption panels (just leaving corner bass traps).

Are diffusors truly worth considering?
Do I consider them just for the central area of front wall?
Or also for those reflection points?
Even my descending eaves (mid point apex 10’ high down to side walls 4’ high, room 18’ wide)?
 

kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
1,002
1,612
330
If your room is well behaved and has a linear response and decay, you do not need anything but If these are assumptions or getting used to the room and you do not have actual measurements then I sincerely suggest to make some. They are very easy to do, and would cost you next to nothing in funds in contrast to what we spend on equipment and you would have some fun time learning a program like REW or a Clio measurement system. When you learn to interpret these programs you actually learn more about acoustics and behaviour of sound. I was lucky to have studied acoustics as part of my studies at Uni. and it laid a good foundation, but you dont need it. There is a very good manual on REW and tons of people to help out with it.

If you have measurements, then it is not much of a guessing game. If you share them, it would be easier to tell if you actually have problems with your room (waterfall and spl), or if there are problems at your reflection points (ECT is helpful here) or behaviour of your general decay (rt60 and waterfall). It is very hard to get a very good and linear response and decay across the audible band without any treatment.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,346
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
It looks interesting, Marc. But it gives me a headache to look at it!

I wonder how it compares in function to the RPG Modffractal?
 

Rodney Gold

Member
Jan 29, 2014
983
11
18
Cape Town South Africa
The best way is to use ASC type tube traps..1/2 the diameter is absorbent , the other 1/2 is reflective (diffusion as its a curved surface) and you can rotate them to change.. bass trapping wont hurt either.
You need to measure the rooms interaction at listening position..cheap as chips..a 70 quid umik 1 usb mic from minidsp and REW which is free.... will keep you occupied for a while:)
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
Good morning everyone.
I’m just having breakfast and ruminating on possibly treating my room with these.
Where could they take me if I already appear to have a room that’s very expressive, linear and well behaved?

My room and system have come together in such a way that I’ve even decided to eliminate the GIK 1st and 2nd reflection points 242 absorption panels (just leaving corner bass traps).

Are diffusors truly worth considering?
Do I consider them just for the central area of front wall?
Or also for those reflection points?
Even my descending eaves (mid point apex 10’ high down to side walls 4’ high, room 18’ wide)?

I think the first reflection point solution is totally room dependent. In my listening room two rooms ago, I had some diffusors/reflectors that were exactly like what Mike Lavigne has in his room. The next room had RPG products that were part cylindrical that diffused and absorbed and in this room I have true diffusors. All worked well and all rooms were different. And I can only assume that "preference" most certainly comes into play as well.

But I am not a believer in doing "nothing" at the first reflection point. I have measured hundreds of normal sized rooms and in every case, a non-treated bare wall at the first reflection point created spurious signals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stump

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,605
5,413
1,278
E. England
Thanks everyone for the practical suggestions.

In comparison to my borderline harsh, reflective and in effect confused previous acoustic, my current room is somewhat of a sweetheart.

Pure absorption at reflection points produced too much damping and softness, so those GIKs are gone.

But the corner bass traps are proving worthwhile.

If there is any criticism of my new space, it may just be on the overdamped side of neutral.

Possibly evidenced by a tad less treble sparkle than compared to my old room.

But I also know my old room could sound overenergetic and ragged in the higher frequencies.

I’m just looking to maybe have a little more extension, sparkle and pertinence in the high end, without losing any of the midband clarity, bass punch and overall transparency and soundstaging/imaging I’m currently really happy with.

Of course if diffusion helps across the board, that would be nice too.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,346
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
I think the first reflection point solution is totally room dependent. . . .

But I am not a believer in doing "nothing" at the first reflection point. I have measured hundreds of normal sized rooms and in every case, a non-treated bare wall at the first reflection point created spurious signals.

What factors — perhaps things like dimensions of the room or existing wall materials — suggest the use of one first reflection solution (e.g., absorption) versus another first reflection wall solution (e.g., diffusion)?

And in each category what factors suggest a particular type of absorber (ASC Matrix Panels, Sonex foam, etc.) versus a particular type of diffuser (SMT wing, RPG Modffractal, GIK No. 23, etc.)?
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
It looks interesting, Marc. But it gives me a headache to look at it!

I wonder how it compares in function to the RPG Modffractal?

It is hard to tell. RPG is the only company that supplies fully comprehensive data about their panels, you will not find similar data from most other companies. The Modffractal seems to be quite close on specifications to the RPG Diffractal I have in my room. At that time - ten years ago - they were by far the best available diffusors, but pricy. And they do not give headache ...

The main drawback of these panels is their depth - 23 cm. They take almost half a meter wideness from our rooms.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
What factors — perhaps things like dimensions of the room or existing wall materials — suggest the use of one first reflection solution (e.g., absorption) versus another first reflection wall solution (e.g., diffusion)? (...)

IMHO the lateral dispersion of the speakers is the main point. Unless you have the measurements it is hard to make a guess. Unfortunately big speakers are hard to move and usually we do not have such data on our preferred monsters ... Then we have rely on opinions of people who sell or own them until we can try.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,346
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
. . .The Modffractal seems to be quite close on specifications to the RPG Diffractal I have in my room. At that time - ten years ago - they were by far the best available diffusors, but pricy. And they do not give headache ...

The main drawback of these panels is their depth - 23 cm. They take almost half a meter wideness from our rooms.

Yes, indeed! RPG told me a few months ago that the Modffractal is a very slight technical improvement over the Diffractal.

Yes, the real diffusors are pretty deep! Matt's (SMT) V-Wing is 250mm deep. His S-Wing is 180mm deep. And his movable Transparent Wing is 300mm deep!
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,346
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Marc, if you want to try something for fun get a pair of the GIKs or a pair of the acrylic SMTs and have at it! :D

("Have at it" is a British-ism, I think?)

PS: I thought you posted about 14 times that you were "pencils down" on spending more money on the system? :confused:
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,605
5,413
1,278
E. England
Gosh Ron, you’ve caught me out!

Actually I wouldn’t be considering this product if a friend on these forums didn’t strongly suggest it.

My room is a tad overdamped meaning I have a somewhat more muted presentation of high end energy, and his advice was to seriously consider these.

Re no more upgrading, you certainly won’t ever hear me talk about moving to any new major components.

But I’d lose my audiophile stripes if I didn’t maintain some system optimisation/low level spending philosophy.

Re “have at it”, you’ll always be our honorary Brit, as if we never lost the colonies.
 
Last edited:

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
But I’d lose my audiophile stripes if I didn’t maintain some system optimisation/low level spending philosophy.

That's where I am. New processor, new amps, a few more speakers showed up a few months ago and have been integrated and very finely tuned. The room has never sounded better. I can't even get my typical tweaks to improve it. So now on to cable management, and, of all things, actually listening to music. What a unique concept !!

This is one of those hobbies where the process can become the destination - and THAT is very time-consuming, on occasion, stressful, and usually expensive.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,605
5,413
1,278
E. England
Audioguy, +1000.
Check out my thread on “winding down” in the General Discussions section.
 
Last edited:

mikewxyz

New Member
Feb 22, 2018
12
1
3
Pacific Northwest
Spirit: Don’t know how much progress you’ve made with your diffusors. I had a similar experience with absorption at the FRP taking too much of the music away. My solution was to use a lean diffusor (Arqen Design) on one of my side walls. I posted the results at gearslutz with a lot of other people. See link.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stu...imized-diy-diffuser-designs-fractals-28.html#post13250925

A sheet of MDF ($20), a table saw, plus some clamps allows you to evaluate whether a diffusor is a solution for you.

Mike
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing