Power Conditioning Advice

dminches

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
3,409
2,794
1,410
For my pre-amp and my sources I am using a Runnning Springs Audio Dmitri which I purchased several years ago. I am not using any external power conditioning on my amps because they have that built in.

I have been looking for alternatives to the RSA Dmitri but most of the options have outlets for high current components, like amps, which I would not use and prefer not to have to pay for.

What are some options which are just for sources and pre-amps?
 

dan31

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2010
1,016
365
1,153
SF Bay
I use running springs audio as well. Shunyata, Audience and Audioquest are the usual manufactures that are discussed for power conditioning. You should demo these as each has their own character.
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
207
150
Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
The only conditioner I have found that really improves digital is the Plasmatron from VHAudio.com. Everyone that auditions one at shows purchases one. It's that good. I have one and would not be without it.

https://www.vhaudio.com/plasmatron.html

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

dminches

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
3,409
2,794
1,410
The only conditioner I have found that really improves digital is the Plasmatron from VHAudio.com. Everyone that auditions one at shows purchases one. It's that good. I have one and would not be without it.

https://www.vhaudio.com/plasmatron.html

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Thanks Steve.

Most of my listening is analog and tubed analog for that matter.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
Most of my listening is analog and tubed analog for that matter.

Look into the IsoTek Mosaic Genesis. It has 3 outlets with regeneration, and 2 outlets with conditioning. It works great, as long as you stay within its limits (150W for the 3 regenerated outlets and 3680W for the 2 conditioned outlets).

Turntables and tubes love the regenerated outputs, as it provides clean and stable 60Hz/115V all day.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,024
1,490
520
Eastern WA
The SurgeX is the only product I can tell you is completely legit in design. ZenWave modifies them some to make them nicer. I know you can get them for $100 used on eBay, and that seems like grounds for dismissal compared to spending thousands for a "better" product, or even spending $1k on the ZenWave improved version. Here's the problem, the other products are not better. I honestly don't think most companies have a clue about what they're doing when it comes to AC - including Shunyata, Audience, and Audioquest.

Isotek might be decent, have haven't got to play with one yet to confirm.
 

dminches

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
3,409
2,794
1,410
Look into the IsoTek Mosaic Genesis. It has 3 outlets with regeneration, and 2 outlets with conditioning. It works great, as long as you stay within its limits (150W for the 3 regenerated outlets and 3680W for the 2 conditioned outlets).

Turntables and tubes love the regenerated outputs, as it provides clean and stable 60Hz/115V all day.

Thanks. I never heard of this unit.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,684
4,473
963
Greater Boston
The SurgeX is the only product I can tell you is completely legit in design. ZenWave modifies them some to make them nicer. I know you can get them for $100 used on eBay, and that seems like grounds for dismissal compared to spending thousands for a "better" product, or even spending $1k on the ZenWave improved version. Here's the problem, the other products are not better. I honestly don't think most companies have a clue about what they're doing when it comes to AC - including Shunyata, Audience, and Audioquest.

I am largely starting to agree with you. Most audiophile power conditioners that I have heard are questionable, with Shunyata the latest to firmly land on my 'suspect' list (the Denali like so many conditioners tends to suck out dynamics, even just on a pre-amp). I have gone the cheap route instead with a medical grade Tripp Lite 1000HG isolation transformer (400 bucks at jet.com), used just for my digital front end. I have also become suspicious of expensive audiophile power chords -- some of them even degrade the sound -- and use stock power chords in my system.

The only audiophile power conditioner that I would consider at this point is the Triangle Art conditioner, which has proven really impressive in a friend's system, and it's not that expensive either (2.5 or 3 grand, depending on number of outlets).
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
207
150
Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
Thanks Steve.

Most of my listening is analog and tubed analog for that matter.

Still a good choice. The Plasmatron is tubed and regulates AC voltage rather than regenerating or filtering it. If your goal is to improve SQ, this is the right product.

Steve N.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
As expected, power conditioner need or needless depend on our mains system, equipment and preferences. I can not see the point of frivolous slandering manufacturers or equipment in general when some one just asks for advice.

I usually avoid posting on power conditioners because european models have to supply 230V, using different components and sometimes add a step up isolation transformer to the US model - probably the experience will not be relevant to 110V users.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,024
1,490
520
Eastern WA
I am largely starting to agree with you. Most audiophile power conditioners that I have heard are questionable, with Shunyata the latest to firmly land on my 'suspect' list (the Denali like so many conditioners tends to suck out dynamics, even just on a pre-amp). I have gone the cheap route instead with a medical grade Tripp Lite 1000HG isolation transformer (400 bucks at jet.com), used just for my digital front end. I have also become suspicious of expensive audiophile power chords -- some of them even degrade the sound -- and use stock power chords in my system.

The only audiophile power conditioner that I would consider at this point is the Triangle Art conditioner, which has proven really impressive in a friend's system, and it's not that expensive either (2.5 or 3 grand, depending on number of outlets).

It can be hard to tell at times whether a conditioner is actually bad for dynamics or the reality is the equipment was dependent on the edge the unfiltered power gave it. Well at least at times it can be - this does happen. But it is much more frequent that the design just isn't appropriate for the diversity of AC operations. Sadly all of the issues have turned into a bunch of dirty theories where every manufacturer argues they use the parts you want... when it's really about design. "No caps or coils" is just moronic - it should read "we don't use caps or coils because just like everyone else we haven't got a clue how to use them for AC".

The other factor is what's inside the equipment? I've run into stereo equipment with bad filters that cause problems and create compatibility issues with legit equipment.


Here's a comparison of a little filter Folsom made, where we try to account for the craziness of the AC system. On the Bottom is something like you'd find in most equipment just all willy-nilly slapping capacitors and inductors in.

 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,024
1,490
520
Eastern WA
How was the capacitor dI/dT chart made and what does it mean?

It's a mains impedance model with a a voltage step for input. What you're seeing is the rate of change of capacitor current di/dt.

If your power is clean then what you can consider is a distribution quad that provides star grounding. I really like the idea of the quad NCF from Kosmic. Clean and high quality components.

No such thing. Plus your equipment generates noise.
 

kleinbje

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2012
181
24
923
CT
What is your concern with the Dmitri? I have used one for about 7 years, no interest in changing. Tried many others, different, but never better. Usually PRaT and dynamics were affected. The Dmitri seemed to kill noise without ill effects, or at least none that I heard. Most just seem to homogenize things a bit. Do you have a HZ? I would also consider an X20 or X30 cable into you Dmitri as an upgrade.
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
2,152
749
1,160
Austin
For my pre-amp and my sources I am using a Runnning Springs Audio Dmitri which I purchased several years ago. I am not using any external power conditioning on my amps because they have that built in.

I have been looking for alternatives to the RSA Dmitri but most of the options have outlets for high current components, like amps, which I would not use and prefer not to have to pay for.

What are some options which are just for sources and pre-amps?

Have you considered Transparent ? I'm quite happy with my power conditioning. The have several models/price ranges. Doshi frequently demos' using Transparent cabling/conditioners...
 

dminches

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
3,409
2,794
1,410
What is your concern with the Dmitri? I have used one for about 7 years, no interest in changing. Tried many others, different, but never better. Usually PRaT and dynamics were affected. The Dmitri seemed to kill noise without ill effects, or at least none that I heard. Most just seem to homogenize things a bit. Do you have a HZ? I would also consider an X20 or X30 cable into you Dmitri as an upgrade.

Part of it is driven by my interest in balanced power which I realize isn't the same as power conditioning. There isn't any bad with the Dmitri so I am just exploring.

I am using the Mongoose right now. Who makes the X20 and X30?
 

dminches

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
3,409
2,794
1,410
Have you considered Transparent ? I'm quite happy with my power conditioning. The have several models/price ranges. Doshi frequently demos' using Transparent cabling/conditioners...

They are on my list. Nick has spoken very highly of the new Transparent conditioners. I may ask Paragon to let me demo one.
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
25
140
USA

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Part of it is driven by my interest in balanced power which I realize isn't the same as power conditioning. There isn't any bad with the Dmitri so I am just exploring.

I am using the Mongoose right now. Who makes the X20 and X30?

Balanced power is one way of power conditioning. Are you interested in balanced input , balanced output or both?
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing