Tubes, different makers, different types...but what are your preferences?

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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I think a lot of us tube 'roll'. For example, i have just rolled some NOS Telefunken rib plate 12AU7's into my Jadis. Before that, I rolled in some NOS RCA Clear Tops. I also just rolled some NOS Siemens 12AU7's into my CAT preamp.
All of these tubes sound very different, one to the other....even though they are all 12AU7's.

So, I thought it might be interesting to get away from some of the horn threads and personal room threads and discuss something a little different. All of us ( most of us?) have experience with tube rolling, that is if we have owned tube gear. What are the significant differences that we hear with the various tube manufacturer's and the particular tube type that we are familiar with.

I will start off with my experience with the 6550 power tube. IME, the very best of these were the GE 6550 A's from the early 70's till about the early 90's. A tube that was very extended and open and was very reliable. Then we had the SED winged C 6550, a tube that I enjoyed for a few years...although not as extended as the GE and a lot more reliable than a lot of the Chinese 6550's from the same era.
So, lets continue, how about the 12AX7...what are the best ones in your mind and why, the 12AU7- same question, etc.,

I will be interested to hear the thoughts on what the members feel are the best of each genre and from which manufacturer.
 

wisnon

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Tubes are not about manufacturer so much as the factory it was made in and when. All factories have their heyday era and of course many makes just slapped labels on other peoples production.

In general the Philips house (Bugle boy- Amperex/Pope/Valvo/Dario and Philips delta codes), Mullard, STC, Brimar, Tungsram and many Japanese makes were great for small signal tubes..but even there you have to drill down 1 or 2 levels to know where to find the diamonds.
 

bonzo75

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211 - Amperex. Kills KR, RCA, GE
300b- Tak, EML mesh, elrog, unless you can get WE 1970$ and before. Avoid reissues.
EL34 have compared dual getter telefunken super expensive to cheap Chinese. Both were different, in that system the Chinese was preferred.
 

wisnon

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Then there is no forum either. LoL

Clearly its my PoV...but a considered one.
 

jadis

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When I purchased a Jadis JA 200 amp and JPL preamp in the mid 90s, my life as a tube roller began, and it started with one Andy Bowman, owner of Vintage Tube Services. Andy would not entertain fax or letters, just personal calls. Being in the Philippines, I had to call him at a 12 hours time differential to learn what or why he wanted to talk and not just write. He was very concerned with what amp or preamp I was using, and from that he would recommend the precise brand and type of tubes to me. He recommended Telefunken 12AX7s for the JA 200 amp and loved them. He later told me to use Mullard 12AU7s for the output stage of the amp, and I loved the sound even more. From there, I ordered more 12AX7 for my JPLs and I remember before I slept in those times, I had tubes floating in my mind like like those cartoon caricatures. :D

Fast forward to ten more years later and during those times I was able to buy more tubes and some of my friends who are into tubes would lend me different brand of tubes to hear their different characters till I was quite saturated I couldn't hear much differences any more. :) IME, the Telefunken 83s and 82s give the best balanced sound from top to bottom, and improves the soundstage over a lot of modern production tubes, be it from Russia, China, Yugoslavia, etc. The Mullard 83s and 82s produce a more 'romantic' and 'lush' sound, specially for female vocals. I have tried a few Amperex Bugle Boys and their sound is something like in the middle of those 2 brands.

By the 2000s I would have discovered good sources for higher level tubes, like the Telefunken 803s and the 802s. For the Mullards, I would be a fan of the 17mm long plate Square Getters from the 50s. The Telefunken 80 series, I remember when I first heard them in my preamp, I told myself it was like my ears were just cleaned or I was 'seeing' through a newly cleaned window, with exceptional clarity, transients, and dynamics. In the end my heart belongs to the Mullard long plate square getters, as they exude even more emotionand a certain tingling sensation to my ears than any other tube brand that I have tried. I have collected them hence, and I have a few spares for my senior years. :D
 

jadis

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DSCN0071_zpsa489ca9d.jpg

DSCN0073_zps75c60046.jpg
 

Sablon Audio

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Gosh, where to begin on this?!?

Typically earlier production sounds better - look for black plates and triple mica. Is there a low noise military iteration eg 5751 / 5814 / 6su7? Then what type of sound do you need for your equipment / tastes eg clearer or darker? Relabelling was rife and Wisnon is quite correct in tracing back to original factory rather than just brand on label.

Of the valve types DaveyF refers to, I have had good results with Tungsol solid black plate 6550s and RCA 5751. I feel there are some generalisations that can be made about house sounds / regions of production eg philips / amperex dutch production often combine decent body and vibrancy. Also be prepared for some sacred cows to be slaughtered by a left field candidate eg best nos 6sn7 saw the Melz 1578 outperform Sylvania round plates and RCA smokies.

I’ve posted this link before but it is worth repeating for some comparative thoughts on a wide variety of small tubes

www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html
 

DaveyF

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Gosh, where to begin on this?!?

Typically earlier production sounds better - look for black plates and triple mica. Is there a low noise military iteration eg 5751 / 5814 / 6su7? Then what type of sound do you need for your equipment / tastes eg clearer or darker? Relabelling was rife and Wisnon is quite correct in tracing back to original factory rather than just brand on label.

Of the valve types DaveyF refers to, I have had good results with Tungsol solid black plate 6550s and RCA 5751. I feel there are some generalisations that can be made about house sounds / regions of production eg philips / amperex dutch production often combine decent body and vibrancy. Also be prepared for some sacred cows to be slaughtered by a left field candidate eg best nos 6sn7 saw the Melz 1578 outperform Sylvania round plates and RCA smokies.

I’ve posted this link before but it is worth repeating for some comparative thoughts on a wide variety of small tubes

www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html

Thanks for the link. Interestingly, I had just rolled in a pair of NOS Telefunken 12AU7's into my amps. These replaced the RCA Clear Tops. ( a very fine sounding tube..as mentioned in your post in the link).
Unfortunately, I cannot agree with your points about the Telefunken's. In my system....the NOS Telefunken's are absolutely incredible. Far more bass extension, resolution, depth, tonal accuracy than the already excellent RCA's!

I replaced a pair of NOS Mullard 4003's with NOS Siemens 12AU7's in my CAT preamp. The Mullards are superb at delineating the highs and are very easy to listen to. I noticed with the Siemens 12AU7's an increase in imaging solidity vs. the Mullards.
The Siemens are known for this attribute..and if you need to solidify images, they are a great way to go. Plus, I believe they are as extended as the NOS Mullards.

Let's continue, the info so far has been great.
 

Sablon Audio

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I didn't make any points about TFK though it appears you prefer a tube with greater clarity / resolution in your system and these characteristics are usually prevalent in German / Eastern European production.
 

DaveyF

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I didn't make any points about TFK though it appears you prefer a tube with greater clarity / resolution in your system and these characteristics are usually prevalent in German / Eastern European production.


Ok. However the author of the piece that you linked to certainly was putting down the Telefunken's in their post. Seemed to believe that the NOS Telefunkens were overpriced and trading just on their reputation. Not my experience at all...well maybe overpriced:D( as they certainly are not cheap...unless, that is, you compare them with other gear in this hobby!)
 

wisnon

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I’m not that familiar with the various EL34’s. Please elaborate on why you feel the Phillips/Mullard is the best.

Typical of why these brands are among the best, better construction and built in the factories in their heyday. Clean but not sterile and lifeless.

I would say try and and see, but they are rare and expensive.
 

wisnon

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Ok. However the author of the piece that you linked to certainly was putting down the Telefunken's in their post. Seemed to believe that the NOS Telefunkens were overpriced and trading just on their reputation. Not my experience at all...well maybe overpriced:D( as they certainly are not cheap...unless, that is, you compare them with other gear in this hobby!)

Telef are clean and sterile in the ECC series. If you mix with Valvos/Amperex/Philips Delta you will get better results IMHO. NEC will kill them all.
 
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marty

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For the Mullards, I would be a fan of the 17mm long plate Square Getters from the 50s. The Telefunken 80 series, I remember when I first heard them in my preamp, I told myself it was like my ears were just cleaned or I was 'seeing' through a newly cleaned window, with exceptional clarity, transients, and dynamics. In the end my heart belongs to the Mullard long plate square getters, as they exude even more emotion and a certain tingling sensation to my ears than any other tube brand that I have tried. :D

+1 There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that equals the Mullard long plate square getter 12 AU7. However, there is definitely a system matching role to be considered. I find the Mullard to be essential in my VTL 7.5 III preamp when used in conjunction with a SS amp. With a tube power amp, I would consider using the Telefunken's for best overall system performance. It all depends on the sound you are looking for. The Tele 802S is indeed an excellent tube, but don't discount the NOS Tele 12 AU7s that were seleted for industrial use (i.e Tektronix/HP/Agilent). They are nearly the equal of the famed 802S at a slightly lower price.

Another important consideration is the quietness of these tubes. The Mullard long plate box getters from the 50's are in general not a quiet as NOS Tele 12 AU7s of any kind incuding the 802S. Here are some graphs that plainly show the difference. The Tele's are 10-15 dB quieter in the midrange than the Mullards. But oh my, that Mullard midrange magic...can't anyone re-make that tube with Telefunken-like quietness?

Mullard 12AU7 long plate, box getters, 1955
Mullard 12AU7 long plate.jpg

Telefunken NOS 12AU7
Telefunken NOS 12 AU7.jpg
 
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jadis

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jadis

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My small stash of Mullard 50s Long Plate (round and square getters)

30232753_10209366050668324_401775954_o.jpg

Matched pair NOS 12AU7s with original box and a July,1956 sticker price of $2.20.:cool:

30232940_10209366062668624_1207937632_o.jpg

30223540_10209366061508595_1536393057_o.jpg

Original Box with 'crumpled' guarantee paper/certificate

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Mullard LP Sq Getter MC1 B7C datecode (Blackburn, March 1957)

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DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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My small stash of Mullard 50s Long Plate (round and square getters)

View attachment 39942

Matched pair NOS 12AU7s with original box and a July,1956 sticker price of $2.20.:cool:

View attachment 39943

View attachment 39944

Original Box with 'crumpled' guarantee paper/certificate

View attachment 39945

Mullard LP Sq Getter MC1 B7C datecode (Blackburn, March 1957)

View attachment 39946

Phil, you have a VERY nice collection there!

Getting to the 12AX7 variety, I happen to think that the GE ( yes GE!!) NOS 1963 long plate 12AX7 is the king of the 12AX7's. Up there would be the NOS Telefunken. Not quite as quiet or with the amazing open top end of the GE's, but superb nonetheless.
 

Empirical Audio

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Oct 12, 2017
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I used to make a tubeDAC that used 6922's. I discovered the best tube was a Siemens CCA grey-plate, from 50's-60's. Tried Telefunken, Amperex, Mullard, Sovtek and many US brands.

Now I have SET tube monoblocks and they use 6SN7, EL34 and 805A-T output tubes. Here are the best I have found of each:

6SN7 - Russian military 6N8S/6H8C with metal bases and holes in the plates, ranging from the 80's back to 1950. Very fast and clean.

EL34 - I found the NOS British Genelec KT-66 to be killer in place of the EL34. Richness and superb bass.

805A-T - Only source is Chinese and new. The Shuguang Nature is the best I have found

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

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