Tubes, different makers, different types...but what are your preferences?

gian60 · May 6, 2018

He sold mainly in Italy
He has not web and also hasn’t mail
You can contact him by telephone or whatsapp
He can speak English
He has very big stock of old materials like very old top capacitors,trans Western Electric and Yamamoto and a lot of very special tube
Really never found a tube amp better than him on my life

DaveyF · May 6, 2018

gian60 said:
He sold mainly in Italy
He has not web and also hasn’t mail
You can contact him by telephone or whatsapp
He can speak English
He has very big stock of old materials like very old top capacitors,trans Western Electric and Yamamoto and a lot of very special tube
Really never found a tube amp better than him on my life

Thanks Gian.

Pretty good recommendation. I'm not looking for another tube amp, but if I were they would be of interest.

cuntigh · May 6, 2018

gian60 said:
He sold mainly in Italy
He has not web and also hasn’t mail
You can contact him by telephone or whatsapp
He can speak English
He has very big stock of old materials like very old top capacitors,trans Western Electric and Yamamoto and a lot of very special tube
Really never found a tube amp better than him on my life

Hello Gian,

I’going to Bergamo in july. Please where does he live ? And can you give his phone ? I don’t have what’app.

gian60 · May 6, 2018

He lives in Rome
650 kg from Bergamo
His mobile is

0039 346 8001888

cuntigh · May 6, 2018

Thank you !

fish fingers · May 30, 2018

Just bought a 'starter' set valve amp from Mark Audio (with a Node 2 as source).
Amp came with JJ KT88's but will try Treasure KT120's in a month or so. I'll let you know how they compare.

DaveyF · May 30, 2018

fish fingers said:
Just bought a 'starter' set valve amp from Mark Audio (with a Node 2 as source).
Amp came with JJ KT88's but will try Treasure KT120's in a month or so. I'll let you know how they compare.

Great. I think you will be in for a very pleasant surprise. While KT88’s are nice, the newer KT120’s will be far more resolving. One thing, be sure the amp can support the newer KT120’s, they are not always a ‘slip in’ replacement, depending on the amps design.

Mendel · Aug 25, 2018

I have collected tubes for my highly modified Rogue Audio Stereo 90 for over 10 years. Most NOS tubes came from hamfests and the tube dealers that support them. The Rogue can use KT120/KT88/6550, KT66, KT90, EL34, KT77, 6CA7 or 6L6GC for output tubes. The drivers are 6SN7s, and input tubes are 12ax7/5751. My preamp is a modified Audio Research SP14 and speakers are the very revealing Acoustat Spectra22 electrostatics.
In my experience in my system:
Best output tubes: GEC KT66, EI KT90, Gold Lion (reissue) KT66, PentaLabs KT88, Russian NOS 6P3S-E, Tung Sol NOS KT88 solid grey plate
Worst output tubes: Tung Sol (reissue) KT120, EH KT88, Mullard NOS EL34 xf2, EH6CA7
Best drivers: Sylvania 6SN7W, Sylvania VT-231, Sylvania 6SN7GT bottom getter three hole plate (badboys), Tung Sol 6SN7WGT, National Union black glass, Russian 1578 hole plates
Worst drivers: Sovtec 6SN7, EH 6SN7, Ken Rad VT-231, RCA 5692 redbase, GE 6SN7 GTB
Best input tubes: Raytheon 12AX7 blackplate square getter, Siemens long plate 12ax7, Tung Sol nos 12ax7 square getter, Matshushita 12ax7 45 degree getter, Sylvania 5751 blackplate, GE 5751 blackplate, Sylvania goldbrand 5751 grey plate gold pins
Worst input tubes: Telefunken 12ax7 (ribbed and smooth plate—- sorry guys!), EH 12ax7, GE 5751 grey plate 2 mica, Sovtec 12ax7
Obviously very gear and listener dependant. The listed tubes are neither bad nor good, just what sounds best to me in my system. Although I would suggest those stuck on Tele 12ax7s and Tung Sol KT120s might want to try something else in their gear for variety
Enjoy the roll!

DaveyF · Aug 25, 2018

Mendel, what criteria are you using to come up with your conclusions. The Acoustat speakers are a very weird load...for most amps. IME, the driver tubes make a lot of difference in the SQ, but it is very dependent on the amp/ speaker synergy. For example, my observations regarding the KT120 tubes and the smooth/ribbed plate Telefunkens couldn’t be more in disagreement with your findings.
What I have noticed in this hobby, is that there seem to be no absolutes, so what may indeed sound not that great in one persons set up, doesn’t necessarily mean it applies across all systems and listeners preferences. YMMV.

c1ferrari · Aug 25, 2018

My experience with tubes...

BAT) VK-51SE, BAT REX: Reflektor 6H30P-DR
VK-75SE, VK-150SE: Svetlana 6C33C

Atma-Sphere) MA-1 Silver Edition Mk. III.3: Melz 1578, Svetlana 6H13C

Mendel · Aug 25, 2018

DaveyF said:
Mendel, what criteria are using to come up with your conclusions. The Acoustat speakers are a very weird load...for most amps. IME, the driver tubes make a lot of difference in the SQ, but it is very dependent on the amp/ speaker synergy. For example, my observations regarding the KT120 tubes and the smooth/ribbed plate Telefunkens couldn’t be more in disagreement with your findings.
What I have noticed in this hobby, is that there seem to be no absolutes, so what may indeed sound not that great in one persons set up, doesn’t necessarily mean it applies across all systems and listeners preferences. YMMV.

Hi Davey.
No conclusions as stated, just one man’s opinion for a given system. Actually, Acoustats with two panels or more per side are a relatively easy load for most (tube) amplifiers, the impedance does not drop very low until the high treble. And my Acoustat interfaces have been rebuilt and the bias increased to make them an even easier load for my amp

I’m not saying the Teles are a bad tube (for one thing they are incredibly well made—I have collected 20 samples and they all test strong and well matched), but in the Rogue I find them thin sounding and lacking in “bloom”in the midrange with bass that does not compare to American black plate tubes from the same era. The Tung Sol KT120 are not a good sounding tube in my opinion and many people share that opinion. Sure they are powerful and punchy, but also harmonically lean and dry in the midrange. As “solid state” sounding an output tube as you could possibly find. I understand that some people would like that sound, but it’s not for me.
Have you tried a Raytheon or RCA black plate 12ax7 in your amp? Or a triple mica black plate 5751 from Sylvania or GE or RCA? A very different type of sound from the Teles. I find the Mullard short plate 12ax7s from the 1960s to be almost the opposite of the Teles, they go to far with bloom and richness in the midrange until the music sound a little thick and bloated. Again, in some systems and to some listeners this works. There is no right or wrong in tube rolling.
I can and do alter the sound of my amp and system with the tubes I use. To me this is one of the things that makes owning tube equipment fun. I still have an old Adcom amp here, and a Quad 606 that I used for many years before I got the Rogue. I think the 606 is a good amp, modern Quad amps still use basically the same circuit. But when I switch it in to drive the Acoustats I lose interest in the music. I just don’t want to sit and listen to it, it doesn’t involve me. It sounds like an electronic reproduction, not like music. Granted, I have not tried a big $$$ solid state amp in my system. And my Rogue has been modified with with a lot of expensive parts (and the best tubes of course!). Would love to hear a Pass Labs amp in my system one day.
Obviously my opinion of the TS KT120 is not shared by Rogue Audio. All their amps come standard with this tube. Pity. But many manufacturers like ARC and Conrad Johnson have moved to the KT150 tube (which I have not heard). I think it is just a matter of time till other manufacturers move away from the TS KT120.

DaveyF · Aug 25, 2018

Mendel said:
Hi Davey.
No conclusions as stated, just one man’s opinion for a given system. Actually, Acoustats with two panels or more per side are a relatively easy load for most (tube) amplifiers, the impedance does not drop very low until the high treble. And my Acoustat interfaces have been rebuilt and the bias increased to make them an even easier load for my amp
I’m not saying the Teles are a bad tube (for one thing they are incredibly well made—I have collected 20 samples and they all test strong and well matched), but in the Rogue I find them thin sounding and lacking in “bloom”in the midrange with bass that does not compare to American black plate tubes from the same era. The Tung Sol KT120 are not a good sounding tube in my opinion and many people share that opinion. Sure they are powerful and punchy, but also harmonically lean and dry in the midrange. As “solid state” sounding an output tube as you could possibly find. I understand that some people would like that sound, but it’s not for me.
Have you tried a Raytheon or RCA black plate 12ax7 in your amp? Or a triple mica black plate 5751 from Sylvania or GE or RCA? A very different type of sound from the Teles. I find the Mullard short plate 12ax7s from the 1960s to be almost the opposite of the Teles, they go to far with bloom and richness in the midrange until the music sound a little thick and bloated. Again, in some systems and to some listeners this works. There is no right or wrong in tube rolling.
I can and do alter the sound of my amp and system with the tubes I use. To me this is one of the things that makes owning tube equipment fun. I still have an old Adcom amp here, and a Quad 606 that I used for many years before I got the Rogue. I think the 606 is a good amp, modern Quad amps still use basically the same circuit. But when I switch it in to drive the Acoustats I lose interest in the music. I just don’t want to sit and listen to it, it doesn’t involve me. It sounds like an electronic reproduction, not like music. Granted, I have not tried a big $$$ solid state amp in my system. And my Rogue has been modified with with a lot of expensive parts (and the best tubes of course!). Would love to hear a Pass Labs amp in my system one day.
Obviously my opinion of the TS KT120 is not shared by Rogue Audio. All their amps come standard with this tube. Pity. But many manufacturers like ARC and Conrad Johnson have moved to the KT150 tube (which I have not heard). I think it is just a matter of time till other manufacturers move away from the TS KT120.

Actually, I would say that the new KT150's are a significant step up over the KT120's.( IMO, the KT150's are a game changer) Mostly addressing the areas that you bring up. As for trying GE or RCA NOS in the driver stage of my amp, yes I have tried these, and they are very good. Not as 'musical' as the Tele's but excellent nonetheless. My favorite RCA in the driver stage of my amp is the Clear top and my favorite GE is the NOS GE 12AX7 long plate from 1963...although this tube is almost unobtanium.I was running Mullard's in my CAT, but these got a little old in the tooth, so i rolled in some NOS Siemens 12AU7's, which while not quite as 'sparkly' on top, do sound superb in the resolution department. I would also say that the '63 NOS GE 12AU7 long plates, IF you can source them..are the every best to my ears in the line stage of the CAT.

Having owned Acoustat's, I agree if you can get them to sing, they can sound great, but getting them to sing..and consistently- is no easy task. I gave up on them and have NEVER looked back, LOL.

Mendel · Aug 25, 2018

DaveyF said:
Actually, I would say that the new KT150's are a significant step up over the KT120's.( IMO, the KT150's are a game changer) Mostly addressing the areas that you bring up. As for trying GE or RCA NOS in the driver stage of my amp, yes I have tried these, and they are very good. Not as 'musical' as the Tele's but excellent nonetheless. My favorite RCA in the driver stage of my amp is the Clear top and my favorite GE is the NOS GE 12AX7 long plate from 1963...although this tube is almost unobtanium.I was running Mullard's in my CAT, but these got a little old in the tooth, so i rolled in some NOS Siemens 12AU7's, which while not quite as 'sparkly' on top, do sound superb in the resolution department. I would also say that the '63 NOS GE 12AU7 long plates, IF you can source them..are the every best to my ears in the line stage of the CAT.

Having owned Acoustat's, I agree if you can get them to sing, they can sound great, but getting them to sing..and consistently- is no easy task. I gave up on them and have NEVER looked back, LOL.

Regarding the Acoustats, the later Spectra models were IMO a significant step up from the earlier series, with better transformers and a electrical delay for the treble that made the speakers much less directional. But all Acoustat were built to a (low) price and used inferior passive parts in the interfaces. It is necessary to have them rebuilt with modern parts to really get them to sing.
My comments on Teles are based on their 12ax7s. I don’t use 12au7, but do have and use Tele 6dj8 and 6922 and they are good tubes that don’t seem to lean quite as much in the direction of their 12ax7.
I will keep a look out for the long GEs I don’t think I have any in my collection.

marty · Jan 6, 2019

jadis said:
For the Mullards, I would be a fan of the 17mm long plate Square Getters from the 50s. The Telefunken 80 series, I remember when I first heard them in my preamp, I told myself it was like my ears were just cleaned or I was 'seeing' through a newly cleaned window, with exceptional clarity, transients, and dynamics. In the end my heart belongs to the Mullard long plate square getters, as they exude even more emotion and a certain tingling sensation to my ears than any other tube brand that I have tried. I have collected them hence, and I have a few spares for my senior years.

+1
I missed this earlier, Phil. Totally agree. The only down-side to the long plate square getters is that they are a bit noisier than several other excellent tubes such as NOS Tele's. But the sound? OMG! see post #16 for noise plots:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-what-are-your-preferences.25253/#post-505370

jeffreybehr · Jan 6, 2019

My favorite 6DJ8 is the British Mullard E188CC (American eq. #7308), which, IIUC, is the third iteration of the 'J8. These are sighly warm in tonal balance and very transparent, 'open', and spacious.

Favorite 6SN7GT is the Tung-Sol oval plate from the '40s (sometimes labeled VT-231) and '50s. Same sonic description as the Mullard E188CCs. My 2nd-fave 'N7 is the WWII-era Ken-Rad VT-231, which are getting about as expensive as T-S OPs.

I managed this year to accumulate 5 quads* of the '188; they're still available new but are a tad expensive at $75 - $100 each. Over the decades I've had several poweramps that used 'N7s, and I now own about 20 TS-OPs. Fortunately, I kept all mine, so I have lots to use in my Atma-Spere OTL poweramps. They're old and don't measure well, but they sure sound GREAT!

* and no longer own anything that uses them...

jadis · Jan 7, 2019

marty said:
+1
I missed this earlier, Phil. Totally agree. The only down-side to the long plate square getters is that they are a bit noisier than several other excellent tubes such as NOS Tele's. But the sound? OMG! see post #16 for noise plots:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-what-are-your-preferences.25253/#post-505370

That is its inherent weakness, Marty. Some of them have high microphonics and it could get bothersome which explains why early tube preamp had those metal shields that fit into the small tubes. I tried it and it did reduce the noise considerably. And indeed, the sound is of the OMG status.

jadis · Jan 7, 2019

jeffreybehr said:
My favorite 6DJ8 is the British Mullard E188CC (American eq. #7308), which, IIUC, is the third iteration of the 'J8. These are sighly warm in tonal balance and very transparent, 'open', and spacious.

+1. When I had the ARC phono preamps that used 6DJ8s, I ended up just loving the Mullard E188CC. Mostly they are labeled CV 2493 and sound just like what you described. I would also be happy with its other sibling the E88CC or CV 2492. It has a sweet tingle in the highs and is just as fast and open as the E188CC/2493.

DaveyF · Jan 7, 2019

Lots of great info here, keep it coming gents.

christoph · Jan 8, 2019

Hi Mendel

Mendel said:
Regarding the Acoustats, the later Spectra models were IMO a significant step up from the earlier series, with better transformers and a electrical delay for the treble that made the speakers much less directional. But all Acoustat were built to a (low) price and used inferior passive parts in the interfaces. It is necessary to have them rebuilt with modern parts to really get them to sing.

Sorry for being OT here but could you elaborate on those mods? Just replace the old parts for newer and nicer ones of the same values?
I have a pair of Acoustats Spectra 22 that I already love as they are...

Wow, when I clicked on your location, I realized that you are only 30 minutes away from me

What a coincidence

jadis · Jan 8, 2019

These 3 tubes are like identical triplets.

ECC82/12AU7
Same Mullard K61/B8C date codes and same 841/1022 batch codes. All long plate 'goal post' halo getters. And with almost perfectly balanced and matched test readings. I got them mainly for posterity.

Beautiful to look at and sounds even more beautiful.

Tubes, different makers, different types...but what are your preferences?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads