Effects of improved power cords on turntables

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
I’ve been running an exemplary set of Sablon cables since 2013-14, first Panatella interconnects & spkr cables, plus Quantum Gran Corona QGC pwr cords, and since 2015, Reservas loom, w upgrade to Elites pwr cords over the last 12 months. I’ve always had readily identifiable impvts in SQ every time I’ve added a cable, or moved on up.
However, the only area I haven’t Sablon’d has been the tt motor psu. Basically because this has been a stock off the shelf Maxxon unit w captive cheapo pwr cord/fused UK plug.
However on my recent take no prisoners analog reinstall I commissioned a bespoke overspecced tt motor psu from Peter Downs of Alternative Audio. I had already got his bespoke psu for Straingauge energiser, and it was logical to get him to do this second psu since they shared a lot in common.
So now I have this psu, installed a SR Black fuse in it, and decided to utilise a spare Sablon QGC UK plug pwr cord for it. I figured the QGC had served me well in the past, and indeed I wouldn’t need to trade up to the Elite. I mean a motor is a motor, it’s not a sensitive source component, phono, dac or even preamp. Just even power to the tt speed controller, this should do it. QGC should be all I need.
And so, after my analog burn in from Hell, the QGC is contributing nicely.
However it was suggested I try the Elite on the motor psu, maybe I’ll be surprised.
Well, surprised isn’t quite the word, shocked and delighted are more like it. The Elite instantaneously has opened up the sound, reticent percussion and bass lines are up front and pertinent, air and soundstaging opened up in all directions, resolution and warmth have expanded.
Initially this made no sense to me (then again, Entreq on Stillpoints being an impvt doesn’t either, but it is), but I’ve given up trying to second guess in this hobby.
I’ll put it out there for opinions.
One thing, my setup is naturally “noisier” than a more SOTA quieter belt drive, my tt uses a rim drive w small Delrin wheel driving Delrin stripe on 14” oversized Al platter, by definition introducing some mechanical noise twds the stylus. I’m very open to the idea that the new impvd Elite pwr cord is “smoothing” imperfections allowing less noise thru, lower vibrations, and thus less hash to the stylus. Basically allowing the psu to provide the calmest, smoothest pwr to the motor.
Whatever, another major triumph of Sablon cables, my 4-5 years being a customer of Mark has been wholly beneficial, and experiences like these are massive cherries on the cake.
 
Last edited:

Hi-FiGuy

Member Sponsor
Feb 23, 2015
2,235
754
385
Ok, not trying to open a can of worms here, but how can a power cable to a turntable motor in any way affect sound?
You are supplying power first to a power supply, stepping on it with transformer, then to a motor, a mechanical device, that is in turn :p rotating a mechanical platter. It is not in the electrical audio chain.
How and where can a power cable make any differences other than not supplying enough power to the motor, 99.9 of all power cable will do that.
Unless I am missing something about how your tone arm works, I am befuddled on this subject. Honestly looking for something concrete to bite on here.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Don’t bite on concrete, the only people to charge more per square inch for stuff than audio companies are dentists .
 

dan31

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2010
1,016
365
1,153
SF Bay
I just started to type a long response and decided to stop. The power supply to the TT motor has an effect on how well the motor run's. Lots of TT have upgrades for power supplies and control of the motor. If you beleive they can make a difference then the power cable supplying the ac can make a difference. Can you hear the difference and if you can, is it worth the cost?

I just swapped ac cables for my Spiral Groove SG2 power supply and I beleive I heard a small improvement. It may just be expectation bias but I'm going to stay with the change.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Mike, what can I tell you? Don’t even think about being an objectivist or reductionist in this game.
My theory is that this power cord is absolutely lowering noise floor, smoothing supply, and any advance to minimising imperfections but transmit less hash to the stylus.
Remember, my tt is rim drive/idler based, these are noisy drive trains by definition.
The miracle is not that some benefit is derived, but so much benefit.
 

twitch

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2010
594
236
1,605
SE Pa
My theory is that this power cord is absolutely lowering noise floor, smoothing supply, and any advance to minimising imperfections but transmit less hash to the stylus.

just that, a theory ..............
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Dan, expectation bias is fascinating when it’s non expectation bias that is exploded.
I’m already 100% confident that Sablon cables punch well above their weight. But OTOH, a motor does such a simple thing, and isn’t at the sharp end of being revealed like a phono, dac or pre, so how could things be so dramatic on a/b?
And I’m thinking that my tt maybe benefits more from lower noise floor than something like your more over engineered SG tt.
My tt system is noisier to start, so any reduction of noise has got to be good.
Also, the tt is the one component in my system that’s never been subject to the high class pwr cord effect, and maybe has always been a weak link.
At £2k, 9 months in development from Peter, and a fully fledged welcome final addition to my last ever system, it’s helped take my analog to an amazing place. If all my other gear benefits from Sablon cables, why not this?
The great thing is that the change is SO dramatic.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Dave, Sablon cables are without doubt the most holistic cables I’ve owned, by far superior to Hovland, Acoustic Zen, Audience Au24, Zu Event, Argento. Plus better than those I’ve trialled ie Entreq Challenger, Nordost, Kimber and Russ Andrews. I’ve had all these cbls in my system over two decades. And I know deep down that the magic trick Sablon performs of self effacing resolution, natural warmth, tonal and timbral truth, is as much down to lowering noise floor as anything else. And I must assume this is at least partially what’s going on here.
Unless you have another theory? Maybe think I’m imagining things?
 

Hi-FiGuy

Member Sponsor
Feb 23, 2015
2,235
754
385
If you had a power cable that acted as an antenna and received every TV/Radio station/all EMF available in the world. How is this audio noise going to get through a quality power supply, through an electrical motor and then through the rubber idler wheel into the platter through the record and to be picked up by the stylus.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but we are talking about the power cord from the wall to the power supply, correct?

And yes there are power supply upgrades for turntables for more accuracy in speed, which in turn translates into better sound, but it isn't the power cord doing it.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Mike, scrap your next visit to MikeL, catch a plane to the UK, and all will become known to you.
LOL, maybe not.
I do believe that lowering noise floor of gear is a massive advantage, and Sablons are great at this. And this can mean something, indeed something v significant even w the motor.
Yes, this is the psu that powers the motor/speed controller, pwr cord to it from one of my Furutech sockets/Oyaide dedicated line.
You just have to hear Who’s Next a/b’d btwn the pwr cords to know what I’m taking about.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
If you had a power cable that acted as an antenna and received every TV/Radio station/all EMF available in the world. How is this audio noise going to get through a quality power supply, through an electrical motor and then through the rubber idler wheel into the platter through the record and to be picked up by the stylus.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but we are talking about the power cord from the wall to the power supply, correct?

And yes there are power supply upgrades for turntables for more accuracy in speed, which in turn translates into better sound, but it isn't the power cord doing it.

Most probably the motor controller generates noise and the power cable is simply reducing its effect. Or simply behaving as a better (lower impedance in the radio frequencies or higher) ground wire to the turntable.
 

twitch

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2010
594
236
1,605
SE Pa
Dave, Sablon cables are without doubt the most holistic cables I’ve owned, by far superior to Hovland, Acoustic Zen, Audience Au24, Zu Event, Argento. Plus better than those I’ve trialled ie Entreq Challenger, Nordost, Kimber and Russ Andrews. I’ve had all these cbls in my system over two decades. And I know deep down that the magic trick Sablon performs of self effacing resolution, natural warmth, tonal and timbral truth, is as much down to lowering noise floor as anything else. And I must assume this is at least partially what’s going on here.
Unless you have another theory? Maybe think I’m imagining things?

1) if your TT system is that noisy to start with I suggest you look at that issue first and foremost

2) I see no way an aftermarket 'PC' will improve platter speed stability unless the stock cords are defective.

3) I own a VPI Aries 3 with an SDS unit, stock cables supplied by VPI, there are plenty of other areas that $$ can be spent
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Dave, I was a bit too literal w my words.
What I mean (and it’s commonly accepted) is that non belt drives are by definition quieter than idler/rim.
So my tt in having contact btwn rim wheel and platter by nature transmits more vibns.
It may be that reducing noise floor further, or smoothing motor efficiency, does help here.
 

Hi-FiGuy

Member Sponsor
Feb 23, 2015
2,235
754
385
Mike, scrap your next visit to MikeL, catch a plane to the UK, and all will become known to you.
LOL, maybe not.
I do believe that lowering noise floor of gear is a massive advantage, and Sablons are great at this. And this can mean something, indeed something v significant even w the motor.
Yes, this is the psu that powers the motor/speed controller, pwr cord to it from one of my Furutech sockets/Oyaide dedicated line.
You just have to hear Who’s Next a/b’d btwn the pwr cords to know what I’m taking about.

I would never scrape a trip to Mikes or Steves place, they keep doing things that I want to hear!
Mike is an hour drive from home and 30 minutes from work so......
I would love to make a trip to the UK and do an audio tour, never been.

100% believe in the benefits of lowering noise floor, its a real tangible thing that makes a huge difference, BUT that particular route make no logical sense to me, guess I will have to get on a plane.

Me: Honey, I need to fly to the UK and see if power cords on a turntable power supply make a difference.
Her: No problem, but could you please sign these documents before you go.

concrete.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Scar972

analogsa

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2017
382
122
175
Cascais
It is probably appropriate to mention what is the motor and controller under discussion. It is impossible to generalise as motors and the corresponding electronics vary wildly. "Maxon" alone does not mean a whole lot as it can be either a real DC motor or a brushless "DC"...
 

gilles13

Well-Known Member
Dec 17, 2015
113
25
260
south of France
On my massive lenco, 160 lb, I heard an improvement in the medium and treble with an Element cable bought in 2010.
In France with EU outlet you can put the plug in two ways because the ground is taken at the outside of the plug and you hear a difference, sometime very important following the way you choose to plug.
Each part of the system must be checked and it's Easy to do with a small item which is used to protect you from making a hole in a wall where there is electrical wiring on.
With it against a pre, amp... you found more energy coming following the way you put the plug.
 

MRJAZZ

Industry Expert
Jan 20, 2014
403
206
350
I’ve been running an exemplary set of Sablon cables since 2013-14, first Panatella interconnects & spkr cables, plus Quantum Gran Corona QGC pwr cords, and since 2015, Reservas loom, w upgrade to Elites pwr cords over the last 12 months. I’ve always had readily identifiable impvts in SQ every time I’ve added a cable, or moved on up.
However, the only area I haven’t Sablon’d has been the tt motor psu. Basically because this has been a stock off the shelf Maxxon unit w captive cheapo pwr cord/fused UK plug.
However on my recent take no prisoners analog reinstall I commissioned a bespoke overspecced tt motor psu from Peter Downs of Alternative Audio. I had already got his bespoke psu for Straingauge energiser, and it was logical to get him to do this second psu since they shared a lot in common.
So now I have this psu, installed a SR Black fuse in it, and decided to utilise a spare Sablon QGC UK plug pwr cord for it. I figured the QGC had served me well in the past, and indeed I wouldn’t need to trade up to the Elite. I mean a motor is a motor, it’s not a sensitive source component, phono, dac or even preamp. Just even power to the tt speed controller, this should do it. QGC should be all I need.
And so, after my analog burn in from Hell, the QGC is contributing nicely.
However it was suggested I try the Elite on the motor psu, maybe I’ll be surprised.
Well, surprised isn’t quite the word, shocked and delighted are more like it. The Elite instantaneously has opened up the sound, reticent percussion and bass lines are up front and pertinent, air and soundstaging opened up in all directions, resolution and warmth have expanded.
Initially this made no sense to me (then again, Entreq on Stillpoints being an impvt doesn’t either, but it is), but I’ve given up trying to second guess in this hobby.
I’ll put it out there for opinions.
One thing, my setup is naturally “noisier” than a more SOTA quieter belt drive, my tt uses a rim drive w small Delrin wheel driving Delrin stripe on 14” oversized Al platter, by definition introducing some mechanical noise twds the stylus. I’m very open to the idea that the new impvd Elite pwr cord is “smoothing” imperfections allowing less noise thru, lower vibrations, and thus less hash to the stylus. Basically allowing the psu to provide the calmest, smoothest pwr to the motor.
Whatever, another major triumph of Sablon cables, my 4-5 years being a customer of Mark has been wholly beneficial, and experiences like these are massive cherries on the cake.

+1 To what he said.....two different tables ( one a high quality belt drive from Triangle Art, the other a PBN AUDIO Denon DD
( DN 308 )...in both cases replaced cheap manufacturers supplied ac cords with KIMBER PALADIUM......

Cheers.....
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Analogsa, my tt is not particularly well known. It utilises a DC motor that supplies 22-25V to the speed controller, but I’ve had a much better unit built. I’ll try and get a summary of its features and report back.
What may or may not be critical, is that the speed controller that the psu supplies is a purely analog, non servo feedback device, it does not measure and adjust itself, just needs tweaking every so often.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Analogsa, my tt is not particularly well known. It utilises a DC motor at 22-25V, but I’ve had a much better unit built. I’ll try and get a summary of its features and report back.
What may or may not be critical, is that the speed controller that the psu supplies is a purely analog, non servo feedback device, it does not measure and adjust itself, just needs tweaking every so often.

DC motor without servo feedback? It should be changing speed all the time!
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Probably Micro. Speed stability is SOOO overrated .
I find it a pretty compelling performer. I believe it’s accurate to 0.3%.
Vic the designer has a long narrative featured on the Lenco Heaven forum about the development of the tt, and why he got rid of all servo speed control.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing