ARC Ref 3 Phono or the new Pass XP27 phono

Annapurna

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
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I am looking for a new Phono amp to replace my existing Nagra BPS phono. Will the ARC Ref 3 or new Pass XP27 be alot better than the Nagra BPS? Which one would be a better phono to suit my system? Any comments or advice is much appreciated.

Note - this is my 1st time posting as I am new to this forum.

My current system is as follows:
SME20/12 V12 arm, Clearaudio Titanium V2, Nagra BPS, Marantz SA10, CD7, NA11S1, ARC Ref 6, Passlabs XA100.8, Sonus Faber Amati Futura, Kimber PK10 Palladian, Yter bi-wire spkr cables, Nordost Valkyrja & Audience AU24SE interconnects, Nodorst Tyr phono cables, PurePower PP+ 3000 Regenerator, TAOC ASR2, Furutech GTX-D NCF(R)
 

byrdparis

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2015
427
478
295
Israel
I am looking for a new Phono amp to replace my existing Nagra BPS phono. Will the ARC Ref 3 or new Pass XP27 be alot better than the Nagra BPS? Which one would be a better phono to suit my system? Any comments or advice is much appreciated.

Note - this is my 1st time posting as I am new to this forum.

My current system is as follows:
SME20/12 V12 arm, Clearaudio Titanium V2, Nagra BPS, Marantz SA10, CD7, NA11S1, ARC Ref 6, Passlabs XA100.8, Sonus Faber Amati Futura, Kimber PK10 Palladian, Yter bi-wire spkr cables, Nordost Valkyrja & Audience AU24SE interconnects, Nodorst Tyr phono cables, PurePower PP+ 3000 Regenerator, TAOC ASR2, Furutech GTX-D NCF(R)

i heard the Ref2 and the XP25 but anyway, if i would need to choose "blind" based on your equipment (if you're going to stay with your analog set up as it is right now)
i will go for the ARC Ref3. just a hunch its going to get you further sound wise... and deeper.
 

Annapurna

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
29
7
85
i heard the Ref2 and the XP25 but anyway, if i would need to choose "blind" based on your equipment (if you're going to stay with your analog set up as it is right now)
i will go for the ARC Ref3. just a hunch its going to get you further sound wise... and deeper.

Hi,

How would you describe the difference in sound between the ARC Ref 2 and XP25 even thought both are considered old models already? I will be keeping my TT setup for a while and it is difficult for me to audition both the Ref 3 and XP27 side by side. I listen mostly to rock, pop, female vocals, jazz and some classical. Yes, most likely I have to buy blind. Thank you.
 

byrdparis

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2015
427
478
295
Israel
Hi,

How would you describe the difference in sound between the ARC Ref 2 and XP25 even thought both are considered old models already? I will be keeping my TT setup for a while and it is difficult for me to audition both the Ref 3 and XP27 side by side. I listen mostly to rock, pop, female vocals, jazz and some classical. Yes, most likely I have to buy blind. Thank you.

Its a bit of a problem to describe my experience with the two. mind you, i was a proud owner of the XP25 for some time! and loved it (i was bought my EAR 912 to replace it and eventually my CH P1)
but i heard the REF2 also in my place once, and in a friend house with a completely different system that i have for a few times!.
i guess what i'm going for in my suggestions is; if il take the overall presentation and strength from your analog set up as i know them.. (SME, CLEAR AUDIO) i will get some more color and depth with the REF3.
i wouldn't know how it compared to the Nagra, i never heard one in a system i knew (only in shows, and there is no way i can draw it from the rest of the set up).

the PASS LABS is very open, quiet and transparent. with load of dynamics capabilities.
the ARC is more color, but not "red", it got some finesse and more depth that will compliment the mechanical politeness and natural feel from you SME combo and CA cart.
further more. i dont think it any less Dynamic or transparent from the XP25.... may be a bit noisier due to his valve base configuration vs all SS and double Chase PASS.
IMHO, YMMV.
 

Annapurna

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
29
7
85
Its a bit of a problem to describe my experience with the two. mind you, i was a proud owner of the XP25 for some time! and loved it (i was bought my EAR 912 to replace it and eventually my CH P1)
but i heard the REF2 also in my place once, and in a friend house with a completely different system that i have for a few times!.
i guess what i'm going for in my suggestions is; if il take the overall presentation and strength from your analog set up as i know them.. (SME, CLEAR AUDIO) i will get some more color and depth with the REF3.
i wouldn't know how it compared to the Nagra, i never heard one in a system i knew (only in shows, and there is no way i can draw it from the rest of the set up).

the PASS LABS is very open, quiet and transparent. with load of dynamics capabilities.
the ARC is more color, but not "red", it got some finesse and more depth that will compliment the mechanical politeness and natural feel from you SME combo and CA cart.
further more. i dont think it any less Dynamic or transparent from the XP25.... may be a bit noisier due to his valve base configuration vs all SS and double Chase PASS.
IMHO, YMMV.

Thank you again for your input. I will approach my local dealer for help. He has both the XP27 and the Ref 3 phono but only the XP27 is available for demo.
 

byrdparis

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2015
427
478
295
Israel
My guess is either one will be great in your system.
Although I was told you what I will choose if I were you in a blind tose,
Maybe if you can demo the xp27 for a real trial and the deal you will get is decent, maybe it’s the way to go...
that way you will be absolutely sure it’s what you want. And how far it’s get from you Nagra (if any).
 

Annapurna

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
29
7
85
My guess is either one will be great in your system.
Although I was told you what I will choose if I were you in a blind tose,
Maybe if you can demo the xp27 for a real trial and the deal you will get is decent, maybe it’s the way to go...
that way you will be absolutely sure it’s what you want. And how far it’s get from you Nagra (if any).

After talking to a few friends who owned the Ref10 phono and Pass XS phono and taking your advice and reading some reviews online, I went to my dealer yesterday and bought the Ref 3 phono without a demo. I did not regret my decision. Out of the box, it is excellent sounding. Everything is so much better than my Nagra BPS, texture, dynamics, soundstage width and depth, and scale. The only thing I feel it lose out to Nagra BPS is quiteness. I feel that BPS is eerily quiet and the Ref 3 less so. Not sure whether it is the stock powercord from the Ref 3 or it is the tube. Maybe BPS is battery operated and it is difficult for a tube amp to match the clean power supply. I have so far listened to 10hrs and i know ARC needs at least a few hundred hrs to runin. Next is to get a good powercord with IEC20 which I dont have. And also to get a good XLR interconnect to use to connect to my ARC Ref 6. Thank you once again for all the advise.
 
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byrdparis

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2015
427
478
295
Israel
The only thing I feel it lose out to Nagra BPS is quiteness.

Thank you once again for all the advise.

i was mentioned it in my first post : "may be a bit noisier due to his valve base configuration vs all SS"
but i think once you will have all the corners dealt. you will get it quieter and less sensitive.

congrats! great buy and superb choice IMHO.
Aviad
 

Annapurna

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
29
7
85
i was mentioned it in my first post : "may be a bit noisier due to his valve base configuration vs all SS"
but i think once you will have all the corners dealt. you will get it quieter and less sensitive.

congrats! great buy and superb choice IMHO.
Aviad

Yes, right now I am running a Nordost Valkyrja RCA from Ref 3 to the Ref 6 and the free PC from ARC. I plan to get a Nordost TYR2 or Yter XLR to replace the RCA and a better pwr cord which hopefully will reduce the noise and improve the sound. After listening over the weekend, the Ref 3 and Ref 6 is indeed a good match with my Passlabs. My Ref 6 has just gone pass 75 hrs and Ref 3 just over 10 hrs and it is getting by the day.
 

Annapurna

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
29
7
85
I bought a used Shunyata Zitron Hydra HC IEC 20 powercord early last week and when I connected it to the Ref 6 pre, the improvement is dramatic. The noise floor reduced significantly and the most obvious is that the whole system sounded so much more crisp and dynamic. It was so obvious when I played tracks from Sade and Tracy Chapman. Right now I am considering getting another 20amp cable either from Yter or Shunyata to connect to my Ref 3 phono.
 

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