Review: Grand Prix Audio • Monaco 2.0 Turntable

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
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Tim, I don't think anyone would disagree w your premise that more and more accurate speed accuracy, and as you say speed stability (aka lack of drift), can only add to the illusion of reality.

However there are many ways to skin a cat. GPA have gone for DD, and v careful measurement of speed/feedback loop on a moderate weight platter. By nailing perhaps the most complex control system on speed, they've achieved an exemplary outcome.

But turn to the AS2000 or Vyger Atlantis/Indian, and you have a wholly different approach, with highly accurate motors combined with high mass/high inertia to achieve perhaps broadly similar performance, no feedback, and now advantages of air suspension and bearing. And the illusion of reality brought about differently.

Hi Spirit - i don't find there's much to disagree with in your account. I use the Monaco as an example for my views because it is the example where I have direct experiential evidence. Taking that approach does nothing to discount other's experience. I made the decision a long time ago not to give accounts of what I don't know. That doesn't rule out discussion of architectures, drive systems, topologies, etc. I'd love to hear a Vyger or AS2000 in their own right and also to gauge those experiences with what I read - but until that happens it doesn't work for me to cite such in, for example, my follow-up with Tango. Hope you understand.
 

heihei

VIP/Donor
Jul 24, 2017
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Has anyone heard the Parabolica, and had the chance to compare it to the Monaco 2.0?
 

ashandger

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2013
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Has anyone heard the Parabolica, and had the chance to compare it to the Monaco 2.0?

Check out Tone Audio as Jeff has reviewed the Parabolica this month and compares it to Monaco 2 that he reviewed previously. Jeff is very helpful so you can contact him via Facebook. Hope this helps!
 

awsmone

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2014
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Canberra Australia
+1

With Marc remarks

Clearly there are other ways to skin a cat

I own a Monaco and am very pleased with it

There are clearly limits in hearing to perceive pitch changes

The issue with speed accuracy is sudden changes in speed causing harmonic smearing of a musical note

I think the big advantage of mass platters is if there is little speed “intervention” the inertia means that these changes occur slower than the playing of a note

However if the change that does occur is Say on a long note eg massed strings and there is a perceived pitch change then it will be noted by some

Many people are quite immune to these pitch changes and it doesn’t worry them

I am quite sensitive as a trained musician.

However I doubt the AS suffers from this given the speed accuracy noted in other blogs.

Marc’s turntable uses a synchronous motor and no controller, the claim being that no intervention is better than bad intervention, this seems to make sense

Of course it also means the speed of the turntable is determined by the mechanics and cannot be adjusted if not in pitch other than by mechanical means, this could annoy some with perfect pitch.

I remember years ago a Acutus reference which when we teetered it on a test record speed was way off

A new spindle for the belt had to be manufactured

Unfortunately they corrected it in the wrong direction and a third spindle hard to be made ....really upset the owner who was a rather OCD German gentleman, he eventually sold the table....
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,606
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E. England
Awsmone, Vic the designer of the Salvation rim drive went thru a few iterations of feedback/speed control, incl obvious optical/markers, and an ingenious voltage drop detector system, but every time it had a deleterious "smearing" action on bass, blunting dynamic attack.

Vic finally returned to a purely analog controller, the speed checked and set by the user, and adjusted at intervals.

I have no doubt this would be no go for those w very precise pitch sensitivity. Vic's tt is never going to be near SOTA here, and such listeners are going to love the Monaco, esp the 2.0.

But I'm obviously not one of them, maybe absolute pitch is less critical to me than dynamic prowess, which the Salvation has in spades.

Although I'm sure once I heard the Monaco 2.0, this winning feature would bowl me over.

Remember, I have heard, and respect, the 1.5.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
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the Upper Midwest
I too believe there are hearing limits to pitch perception, but also believe pitch is just the entry point to hearing the benefits of stable speed accuracy. Alvin Lloyd claims pitch is unmeasureable with any of the Monacos or the Parabolica, using the traditional DIN methods. I heard no pitch variation with either the Monaco 1.5. or 2.0. In this class of 'tables (or more expensive), speed stability is far less likely to occur suddenly than slow drift over time.

I don't know if you'd consider dielectric absorption and relaxation (release) as a timing error, smearing, or a more generic 'distortion'. This is where past signal (music) is injected onto present signal thanks to the polarization of particles in a wire's dielectric and the subsequent change in AC polarity. Take it away or keep it from happening and you will, (may likely), hear better sound. The point is that small signal timing aberations can impact what we hear, and typically we don't realize that until the aberation is gone.

Stable speed accuracy brings a wealth of benefits to so many sonic attributes, particularly those with any relation to time and timing. I had no idea, no anticipation or expectation of those benefits until I heard the difference between an already highly stable speed accurate 'table and one near perfection in that area with a v. low noise floor. Tone and tonal depth, attack and decay, clarity, focus. flow, coherence, and especially dynamics - for starters. That difference is not subtle; you don't have to listen for it - maybe ten bars in my case, long enough for my brain to catch up to my ears. I don't believe we can read the words or talk ourselves into it with actual listening experience.

And yes - the standard caveat - there are, can be, may be other ways to achieve similar satisfaction with alternative designs. I say that because I haven't experienced them.
 

awsmone

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2014
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Canberra Australia
Totally agree that’s speed stability is a great pleasure

Was listening to slow movement of Beethoven’s violin concerto Alfredo Campoli on HMV DE7C0F65-7DE2-4531-8759-6674F077FAE7.jpg

The level of harmonic precision of the Monaco was truly stagggering
Dialling in the timbral envelop was invigorating to say the least

The Monaco is a precision instrument and anything not aligning will be ruthlessly exposed

But the sound I was getting at the end of the calibration session was very special :)
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
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Has anyone heard the Parabolica, and had the chance to compare it to the Monaco 2.0?

My dealer has both in stock. I've heard it, it's quite good, bettering my former Monaco 1.0 in some aspects
 

awsmone

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2014
1,616
513
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Canberra Australia
Lol damning with faint praise ...”quite good” ?
 

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