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Thread: Top Wing Seiryu arrives at Believe High Fidelity

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I would not worry, Tang. Not everyone will be satisfied with your reports of what you hear, or your methods of comparison. You are not a professional reviewer, nor are you paid for sharing your impressions. I appreciate your efforts and willingness to write in these forums. You are only able to do what you can within your limits of time and experience. As you own many top flight examples of turntables, arms, and cartridges, I value your position as a hobbyist and collector and not as one who has a vested interest in the results. I like your style and your candor.
    +1!
    DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Metronome Kalista / Kondo KSL DAC, Soundlab A1 Px's , EMT927, SME3012R, ARC Phono 3, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfried II, TA Opus MM2 speaker and signal, TA XL digital, TA XL gen V power cables, CenterStage footers and Nordost Qkore8's!

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    Rather than going around in smart arse circles and contradicting yourself - stating that loading does not matter on cartridge like the RS - then stating Tango is not getting the best out of the RS as the loading is not correct.

    What is the preferred loading from the manufacturer or by your esteemed self?

    BTW - you do realise that a professional cartridge set up guy sets up all Tang's cartridges - so personally I have no doubt they are set up about as good as they can be.

    I agree totally XV-1 frankly that Believe Hi Fi fellow was rather rude to Tang.

    Good on our Thai Resident for his forthright opinion . WBF should not degenerate into a Dealer Promotions Forum.


    BruceD
    Last edited by BruceD; 05-10-2018 at 04:32 AM.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    Rather than going around in smart arse circles and contradicting yourself - stating that loading does not matter on cartridge like the RS - then stating Tango is not getting the best out of the RS as the loading is not correct.

    What is the preferred loading from the manufacturer or by your esteemed self?

    BTW - you do realise that a professional cartridge set up guy sets up all Tang's cartridges - so personally I have no doubt they are set up about as good as they can be.
    This pretty much sums it all up.

    Loading (at least in its context) is setting the 100, 220pf, etc on the phono. Setting Impedance is something else entirely.

    In the case of the RS it is not sensitive to load, but it is sensitive to impedance. So no contradicting going on here I am afraid, just those people who are interpreting loading for something that it is not or who do not understand the difference between the two.

    The impedance setting I have found to be ideal I did not release in order to ascertain whether or not Tangos setup man is doing a proper job. I do realize Tango is not the setup guy, but while you have no doubt they are properly setup I most certainly never take that for granted. Moving forward I have found 1k and sometimes even 47K will sound better than 280 or 470. Phono dependant, but definitely not the norm for lowput. By contrast the Etsuro Urushi not only likes low, but current mode which can only be found on very limited options of Phonos.

    What folks dont seem to realize is that about half the systems I do a setup (or my dealers) in are not done correctly. Having an expensive system doesn't make you an expert. There is no nice way to confront someone on this point and of course I am the ******* for pushing back.

    I haven't ever not disclosed my financial interest in the brands I carry so anytime I post on those same brands it will always be met with scrutiny. Par for the course....
    Believe High Fidelity Ltd is the North American Distributor for:

    Aries Cerat Ltd
    Torqueo Audio
    Vermouth Audio Cables
    Etsuro Urushi Cartridges
    Primary Control
    Echo Diastasis
    Top Wing

    Kassandra LE DAC wins Best DAC of 2016/2017 with reviewer purchase @ Mono & Stereo! Article here

    Like us on Facebook!


    Email: j@Ibelieveinhifi.com
    Web: www.ibelieveinhifi.com

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofmusic View Post
    Joshua, WBF started as predominantly as a place for enthusiasts and punters to talk about gear, concepts, sounds.

    If engineers did chime in, it was never to hawk their wares, but to genuinely add to the discourse (Ralph of Atmasphere being a good example).

    Only in the last couple of years has WBF morphed into a hybrid with manufacturers/designers AND NOW dealers getting involved.

    Now there’s a lot more “fake news” potentially about.

    So for you to in effect say “I’m alright Jack”, but will “tolerate” more mixed reports from those like Tang, well hey, thanks for the courtesy 樂.
    That's fair, but I don't disagree with my position. As a reseller I have to know everything about this cart just as much as what it is, but also what it needs. So far no one has said my outrageous claims of its performance are off, maybe that they dont prefer certain aspects of it to other carts which is pretty normal.

    But Tang did mention he sets them all the same (and that he is not the guy setting them up) so if he is not getting the best out of the cart then I call it out. If sensitivity to that prevails over my own experience to get the most out of it so be it.
    Believe High Fidelity Ltd is the North American Distributor for:

    Aries Cerat Ltd
    Torqueo Audio
    Vermouth Audio Cables
    Etsuro Urushi Cartridges
    Primary Control
    Echo Diastasis
    Top Wing

    Kassandra LE DAC wins Best DAC of 2016/2017 with reviewer purchase @ Mono & Stereo! Article here

    Like us on Facebook!


    Email: j@Ibelieveinhifi.com
    Web: www.ibelieveinhifi.com

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofmusic
    Joshua, WBF started as predominantly as a place for enthusiasts and punters to talk about gear, concepts, sounds.

    If engineers did chime in, it was never to hawk their wares, but to genuinely add to the discourse (Ralph of Atmasphere being a good example).

    Only in the last couple of years has WBF morphed into a hybrid with manufacturers/designers AND NOW dealers getting involved.

    Now there’s a lot more “fake news” potentially about.

    So for you to in effect say “I’m alright Jack”, but will “tolerate” more mixed reports from those like Tang, well hey, thanks for the courtesy
    Quote Originally Posted by BruceD View Post
    I agree totally XV-1 frankly that Believe Hi Fi fellow was rather rude to Tang.

    Good on our Thai Resident for his forthright opinion . WBF should not degenerate into a Dealer Promotions Forum.


    BruceD
    Hello spirit, hello BruceD,

    If we understand “fake news” as a form of harm, perhaps it’s worth asking which is potentially likely to cause more harm:

    A dealer/distributor/manufacturer with skin-in-the-game attempting to disseminate information in which any intentional/unintentional disinformation may have real-world consequences for themselves; or a punter/blogger/reviewer with no skin-in-the-game attempting to disseminate information in which any intentional/unintentional disinformation will have zero real-world consequences for themselves?

    I may not agree with everything a dealer/distributor/manufacturer might say, but skin-in-the-game suggests the dealer/distributor/manufacturer must be more prudent in managing any disinformation - the anonymous forum punter with a few idle minutes can be much more fast and loose with their (dis)information because it costs them nothing to do so (1).

    I believe this was only very recently relevant apropos an apology issued to a small, boutique manufacturer for comments made from someone with no skin-in-the-game.

    Food for thought, perhaps.

    Best,

    853guy

    (1) That's not to suggest a dealer/distributor/manufacturer cannot ever be a source of disinformation, only that the dealer/distributor/manufacturer is far more likely to be susceptible to any downside from propagation of that disinformation, in a way no keyboard warrior ever will be.
    Jung Lee, The End, 2010, Courtesy of the artist and Green Art Gallery, Dubai.
    --
    "In a time of drastic change it is the learners who inherit the future. The learned usually find themselves equipped to live in a world that no longer exists." Hoffer, Eric. Reflections on the Human Condition. (Aphorism 32). 1973

  6. #166
    Addicted to Best! XV-1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Believe High Fidelity View Post
    This pretty much sums it all up.

    Loading (at least in its context) is setting the 100, 220pf, etc on the phono. Setting Impedance is something else entirely.

    In the case of the RS it is not sensitive to load, but it is sensitive to impedance. So no contradicting going on here I am afraid, just those people who are interpreting loading for something that it is not or who do not understand the difference between the two.

    The impedance setting I have found to be ideal I did not release in order to ascertain whether or not Tangos setup man is doing a proper job. I do realize Tango is not the setup guy, but while you have no doubt they are properly setup I most certainly never take that for granted. Moving forward I have found 1k and sometimes even 47K will sound better than 280 or 470. Phono dependant, but definitely not the norm for lowput. By contrast the Etsuro Urushi not only likes low, but current mode which can only be found on very limited options of Phonos.

    What folks dont seem to realize is that about half the systems I do a setup (or my dealers) in are not done correctly. Having an expensive system doesn't make you an expert. There is no nice way to confront someone on this point and of course I am the ******* for pushing back.

    I haven't ever not disclosed my financial interest in the brands I carry so anytime I post on those same brands it will always be met with scrutiny. Par for the course....
    Where has anyone talked about capacitance loading on this thread? MC's are generally not susceptible to capacitance - hence my original question on loading as the RS is not quite a MC or MM.

    We have been discussing resistive/impedance loading depending on the phono stage. Tang said his Ayon phono was loaded at 300 ohms, not 300pf. He also tried adjusting loading on his EMT - again - nothing to do with capacitance loading.

    Anyway, you have now said the RS liked to be loaded open at 1k or 47k - instead of lower.

    What impedance does the RS prefer when using a SUT?


    cheers
    Source:TW Raven AC-3 - Thales Simplicity II, Exclusive P3, Technics SP10mk3, Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
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  7. #167
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    853, are you referring to me re my frankly misleading comments re Wheel Fi Horns, which I was happy to withdraw when the error of my ways was pointed out to me?
    If so, I was guilty as charged on that one, but not relevant here I think.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    Where has anyone talked about capacitance loading on this thread? MC's are generally not susceptible to capacitance - hence my original question on loading as the RS is not quite a MC or MM.

    We have been discussing resistive/impedance loading depending on the phono stage. Tang said his Ayon phono was loaded at 300 ohms, not 300pf. He also tried adjusting loading on his EMT - again - nothing to do with capacitance loading.

    Anyway, you have now said the RS liked to be loaded open at 1k or 47k - instead of lower.

    What impedance does the RS prefer when using a SUT?


    cheers
    In the context of not assuming anything I wanted to think that his version of loading was indeed relative to impedance, but given that he set it low at 300ohms flattens out the sound considerably. So if he was adjusting impedance he would have noticed that it likes to be set higher .
    Last edited by Believe High Fidelity; 05-10-2018 at 07:29 AM.
    Believe High Fidelity Ltd is the North American Distributor for:

    Aries Cerat Ltd
    Torqueo Audio
    Vermouth Audio Cables
    Etsuro Urushi Cartridges
    Primary Control
    Echo Diastasis
    Top Wing

    Kassandra LE DAC wins Best DAC of 2016/2017 with reviewer purchase @ Mono & Stereo! Article here

    Like us on Facebook!


    Email: j@Ibelieveinhifi.com
    Web: www.ibelieveinhifi.com

  9. #169
    Dear sirs,

    We are talking about a core less design as if any old cobbler could make it.

    The red sparrow is the best transducer bar none.

    Do not be put off by hyperbole,buy as many as you can afford.

    AE posters cry wolf with aplomb normally associated with direct marketing. In this case they are right and fair to do so.

    It would be sad to see others miss out on something so worthy of investigation.

    Kind regards,G.

  10. #170
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    General, Joshua and the AE clan have also gone crazy over the Top Wing Blue, any thoughts on that one?

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