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Thread: Top Wing Seiryu arrives at Believe High Fidelity

  1. #91
    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best!
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    Since when did work become an excuse for not contributing properly on the forum
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  2. #92
    Addicted to Best! DaveyF's Avatar
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    Thanks Tango for the interesting report. Comparing cartridges is a very very difficult task, IME. So many variables come into play. I too am interested in what happened to your MSL Platinum. With only twenty hours of play time on the RS, I would guess it may not be even broken in yet. BTW, did you hear do the cartridge comparison with the new tubes you said were going to be installed in all your gear?

  3. #93
    [Industry Expert] Addicted to Best! Believe High Fidelity's Avatar
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    Interesting findings Tang. I am also curious to know which impedance setting you are currently using as well. The Top Wing products are a hybrid MM/MC design and unlike some of the very low output impedance carts are actually very sensitive to impedance settings as well as VTA. We use AnalogMajik LP and software to dial it in to precise settings. A lot of preconceptions in setup that degrade the sound you can read here on VTA/SRA

    Audiophile Bill's summary I find to be much more on point and while I know not any single cart is going to be everything to everyone, I do know there are some points missing in my experience.

    All things being equal as well, the Top Wing Designs leaning more to MM allow for stylus replacement at 1/10th of the cost of what you pay for any other brands. A lifetime cart.
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  4. #94
    Addicted to Best! PeterA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo75 View Post
    I think we will have to wait till Tang changes his arm, cart, and TT combo
    Exactly. This will tell him and then his readers much more. The cartridge should also need much more break in.
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  5. #95
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Tango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I really appreciate your report, Tang. It is very easy to understand what you are hearing and the differences you describe. Thank you so much.

    You do mention that the cartridges are all on different arms, turntables and phono stages. You have written in the past that you don't think the turntables contribute much or anything to the differences you hear, but I suspect the arms and perhaps the phono stages/cables do. This is great information, and if you get around to switching the cartridges around for different combinations, that will add some important information to these impressions. Great work.

    What do you mean by your comment about MikeL's vinyl playing being more of a back ache? He seems to have fewer choices than you do with your incredible cartridge/arm/table collection. Is this a reference to his amplifier choices?
    Dear Peter,

    Turntables do characterize the overall picture of sound, more macro than micro imo. For example when I say the 927 is more out of the way, it is a macro level. The same as when I say the AF1P sounds very organize, every thing is so in order like a marching band. That is also at macro level. You won’t be hearing me talking about dynamic, resolution, sound stage, bass, quietness, etc., of this level of tts because I think they possess all these more than adequately. And these attributes are only face values of a tt. The more “obvious” of a particular attribute the more calling for attention and the less out of the way. I think different arms, carts can give more difference in degree of these attributes than different tts. Only when you look pass through these surface of things, you will realize the inherent character or better yet a “non-character” character of a tt. I give you one example of my “non-character” character of a tt. The idler drive. Most people characterize this type of tt as having excellent drive..very rhythmic, dynamic. I had this in my head too when I bought the 927. But once I have sorted out the set up issues of this 927, I started to realize that i am struggling to find a character of this tt. The “drive” character doesn’t stand out but it has all the dynamic, the rhythm, the power one could ask for. Very interesting indeed. I have a lot more to learn.

    When I mentioned uncle Mike I was just teasing him. He gets different flavor by playing different amps and he has so many wires to connect and disconnect switching amps. His amps are on the floor and he looks about 6’3”. That’s more back ache than me changing my vinyl fronts.

    Kindest regards,
    Tang
    Last edited by Tango; 05-01-2018 at 06:05 PM.

  6. #96
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Tango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophile Bill View Post
    I have not much time to write as I am currently at work but I don’t recognise quite a few observations by Tang in the General’s system. In brief:

    > Bass was very deep and textured and plenty of it
    > Spatial resolution was incredible with loads of harmonic texture and generous in mid bass
    > Ultra vivid mid range and extended treble
    > Highly musical

    These observations were vs Sumile cart (and Benz LPS very short time).

    I wonder whether this cart is very sensitive to arm, loading, gain, vta etc to explain this.
    Dear Bill,

    I have no doubt about what you are hearing. RS is a very good cart with its own strengths. I was writing in comparison to the other two carts on different tts of mine but easily a/b/c them at a flick of a finger. Differences I wrote are in degree to the Opus1 and Atlas SL. This is my feedback after 20hrs. And Bonzo is right I need to play around more. So pls don’t take my feedback as conclusive. Bonzo has good ears. He doesn’t like his Coralstone. But still I like his Coralstone in my system. People should not be so definite on vinyl fronts.

    Kind regards,
    Tang

    Added: I did state that the RS has very vivid tone like Opus1. The excellent high extension I wrote to Gian and Kedar off line but forgot to mention in my post here.
    Last edited by Tango; 05-01-2018 at 05:06 PM.

  7. #97
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Tango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Slightly off topic, but Tang, do I recall correctly that you also had the MSL Platinum and found it very similar to the Opus-1? I am guessing you eventually decided it wasn't as good?
    Yes, the sound has a lot of family resemblances. One cart has more in degree of some attribute in comparison to another doesn’t mean it is better generally than the other imo. MSL P has nicer midbass than Opus1. Opus1 has better high extension and more holographic than MSL P. So it is really up to personal preferences. The MSL P is now on my Axiom/EMT. I took the Palladian off. I like the MSL more than the Palladian.

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    Kind regards,
    Tang
    Last edited by Tango; 05-01-2018 at 06:17 PM.

  8. #98
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Tango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyF View Post
    Thanks Tango for the interesting report. Comparing cartridges is a very very difficult task, IME. So many variables come into play. I too am interested in what happened to your MSL Platinum. With only twenty hours of play time on the RS, I would guess it may not be even broken in yet. BTW, did you hear do the cartridge comparison with the new tubes you said were going to be installed in all your gear?
    Hi DeveyF,

    The new tubes for my Ayon Phono are on the way. I haven’t changed tubes yet. But I don’t think this will effect much of the aspects of sound I commented. Beside the Opus1 is also using with this very same phono and on SAT as well. Only variables are tts and cartridge setting.

    Kind regards,
    Tang

  9. #99
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Tango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Believe High Fidelity View Post
    Interesting findings Tang. I am also curious to know which impedance setting you are currently using as well. The Top Wing products are a hybrid MM/MC design and unlike some of the very low output impedance carts are actually very sensitive to impedance settings as well as VTA. We use AnalogMajik LP and software to dial it in to precise settings. A lot of preconceptions in setup that degrade the sound you can read here on VTA/SRA

    Audiophile Bill's summary I find to be much more on point and while I know not any single cart is going to be everything to everyone, I do know there are some points missing in my experience.

    All things being equal as well, the Top Wing Designs leaning more to MM allow for stylus replacement at 1/10th of the cost of what you pay for any other brands. A lifetime cart.
    I am interested in buying the AnalogMagik as well. I need all the tools that can help me because, I will say this out loud in the open, I suck at cartridge set up! I am probably the only vinyl person in this forum whom not good at setting up cart. I rely on my tonearm guy who makes his living of setting up carts and tt for so many systems here in Thailand. In fact I should put him on my company payroll .

    So you guys don’t for one second think I know what I am doing setting up carts. I am no ddk or Peter. I only can use my ears to fine tune the setup that my tonearm guy do for me. Dietrich is another tonearm guy who does his things for me and egolessly ask me every time if it sounds right to me. Ddk will be with me in maybe a month. There shouldn’t be any question of setup by then since he did setup the RS in his system once before.

    Kind regards,
    Tang

  10. #100
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Tango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    thank you Tang for your feedback on this new cartridge. sounds to me like the Opus1 and Atlas SL both overall bring more to the music. it's is a service to all of us you having such a wide array of top cartridges (and arms.....and tt's) to comment from. many thanks for all your considerable efforts.
    Thank you Mike. You wouldn’t believe how much I learn and get so much good info from you. My comments are only my point of view..just another data point. We are in a very expensive hobby and we cannot have every chances to try gears in our own system. So, this forum is excellent if we can read gears feedbacks from both the actual users and industry associates.

    Kindest regards,
    Tang

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