Mac Mini vs. MacBook for music server

abrich

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2012
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Dear experts:

I've been getting into computer-based audio, and had been planning on picking up a Mac Mini for use as a music server (perhaps one of the headless models).
Planning to have it connected via an optical cable to an external DAC feeding a Marantz PM8005 amplifier.

My question: Does a Mac Mini necessarily make more sense than a MacBook? Is there a real advantage to using a Mini, sonically or otherwise?

Is anyone using a MacBook as a server -- and doing so happily?

Thanks for your help on this.
 

dctom

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Jan 28, 2015
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www.davidcthomas.co.uk
I have used a macbook, macbook pro, an old mac mini and Dell laptops as severs. They were all fitted with a ssd. They all worked fine running Jriver, the mac mini running on Linux was marginally the best, the dell was the worst.

There are members using Mac Minis successfully although they have had them moded with special power supplies etc.
 

abrich

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2012
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313
Thank you vey kindly!

I see the SSD is a must-have.
Mac mini bested MacBooks... Did you use Mac mini with its stock internal PSU, please?
 

dctom

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2015
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www.davidcthomas.co.uk
yes it just had the standard PSU. I have found that linux helps - it is only an old duo core cpu (low power seems better) it struggled to upsample with OSx, ran better with linux - I think it sounds better as well.

have now built a dedicated itx linux server which is better again.
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
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I've been using a dedicated Macbook Pro w/SSD for years w/o issue having ran/running Jriver, Roon, iTunes, Bluesound etc. Anytime I've A/Bd it to a 'high-end' audio server, I frankly haven't heard any improvement.

At the moment I'm using Roon (on the MBP) feeding the PS Audio Directstream DAC over the network, works/sounds great.
 
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abrich

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2012
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313
Thank you very kindly, dear experts!:)

Ergo, there is no need to spend $$$ on the likes of LUMIN or Aurender: just use the stock Mac mini or MacBook and Bob (sorry Bob, no pun is intended) is your uncle!:b

Will you please be so kind to recommend me a modern DAC (no preamp, no headphone amp, and good for both PCM and DSD) to use in conjunction with Mac?:confused:
If possible, please give your recommendations for three price ranges: up to 1K, 2K, and 3K: one DAC is intended for my main system, and the other one will be used in my office setup.:rolleyes:
 

johndoe21ro

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Oct 3, 2012
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I've been using MacBook Pro as a server for years. And it's got a SSD inside as you can see in my signature. I'm planning to move to MacMini and a linear power supply with the help of a DC conversion kit from UpTone Audio.
 

Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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I've been using MacBook Pro as a server for years. And it's got a SSD inside as you can see in my signature. I'm planning to move to MacMini and a linear power supply with the help of a DC conversion kit from UpTone Audio.

Hi johndoe21ro
I have used my 2013 Mac Mini as a music server for 5 years now, originally as base, then with SSD, more RAM, and using Audirvana+. Then I did the Uptone Audio mod (fiddley to do), and bought the HD Plex 100 LPS, which also feeds my ext drive. Later I ditched USB output and went Ethernet to a Rednet 3 which clocks it and outputs SPDIF. The last 2 upgrades were HUGE. No digital sound anymore, pure music and dead smooth, like vinyl in fact. Maybe we should all go back to vinyl? But I agree, the Mac Mini set up right can be a top transport / source feeding a DAC for sure. All my files are output as resident resolution, no up sampling, no messing. It sounds best for my NOS DAC.

Don't forget to strip it back, no USB devices connected, no internet access, no email, auto updates etc. Kill anything not used to play music basically. Open Activity Monitor and watch for memory usages, and drill down that, get out switched off. Good luck!
 
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johndoe21ro

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2012
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Hi johndoe21ro
I have used my 2013 Mac Mini as a music server for 5 years now, originally as base, then with SSD, more RAM, and using Audirvana+. Then I did the Uptone Audio mod (fiddley to do), and bought the HD Plex 100 LPS, which also feeds my ext drive. Later I ditched USB output and went Ethernet to a Rednet 3 which clocks it and outputs SPDIF. The last 2 upgrades were HUGE. No digital sound anymore, pure music and dead smooth, like vinyl in fact. Maybe we should all go back to vinyl? But I agree, the Mac Mini set up right can be a top transport / source feeding a DAC for sure. All my files are output as resident resolution, no up sampling, no messing. It sounds best for my NOS DAC.

Don't forget to strip it back, no USB devices connected, no internet access, no email, auto updates etc. Kill anything not used to play music basically. Open Activity Monitor and watch for memory usages, and drill down that, get out switched off. Good luck!

Thanks! I'll do that! :)
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
I've been using a Mac Mini for many years with superb results. Many years at trade shows I used it. I have a LPS on it as well as increased DRAM and SSD disk for the OS and apps. Local RAID1 is attached for my music files. These are all easy to install yourself on older Minis. Background apps should be killed, like spotlight. If you are using USB, which you probably will in your DAC price range, the Mini is a great choice. It has at least one really good USB port. I would never do a headless version. Always make sure you can see the screen on the mini for software installation and configuration.

For USB I would recommend Amarra for best sound quality. I have tried them all. For Ethernet playback, I recommend Linn Kinsky with Minimserver. Beats all others.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 
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johndoe21ro

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2012
104
8
260
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I've been using a Mac Mini for many years with superb results. Many years at trade shows I used it. I have a LPS on it as well as increased DRAM and SSD disk for the OS and apps. Local RAID1 is attached for my music files. These are all easy to install yourself on older Minis. Background apps should be killed, like spotlight. If you are using USB, which you probably will in your DAC price range, the Mini is a great choice. It has at least one really good USB port. I would never do a headless version. Always make sure you can see the screen on the mini for software installation and configuration.

For USB I would recommend Amarra for best sound quality. I have tried them all. For Ethernet playback, I recommend Linn Kinsky with Minimserver. Beats all others.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

I couldn't agree with you more but regarding software playback I'm all in for Logitech Media Server/Squeezelite! Incredibly organic, natural, tonally rich and relaxed sound compared to almost anything else. The difference between LMS and Audirvana 3.x.x (for example) is astronomical!
 
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Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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I've been using a Mac Mini for many years with superb results. Many years at trade shows I used it. I have a LPS on it as well as increased DRAM and SSD disk for the OS and apps. Local RAID1 is attached for my music files. These are all easy to install yourself on older Minis. Background apps should be killed, like spotlight. If you are using USB, which you probably will in your DAC price range, the Mini is a great choice. It has at least one really good USB port. I would never do a headless version. Always make sure you can see the screen on the mini for software installation and configuration.

For USB I would recommend Amarra for best sound quality. I have tried them all. For Ethernet playback, I recommend Linn Kinsky with Minimserver. Beats all others.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Steve, do you prefer Amarra to Audirvana+ 3? I tried Amarra 2 years back and it kept bombing on Mavericks so didn't get very far with it. Maybe it is improved now?
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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www.empiricalaudio.com
Steve, do you prefer Amarra to Audirvana+ 3? I tried Amarra 2 years back and it kept bombing on Mavericks so didn't get very far with it. Maybe it is improved now?

I have not tried the latest Amarra version yet, but I have heard good things about it.

I play networked exclusively now using Kinn Kinsky and Minimserver. SQ beats anything USB.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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I have not tried the latest Amarra version yet, but I have heard good things about it.

I play networked exclusively now using Kinn Kinsky and Minimserver. SQ beats anything USB.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Interesting, thanks. Until last week I was really done with USB audio. But I have changed DACs to the Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref II and it beats my Rednet3 on sound quality. My Mac Mini (modded with 12V uptone audio board and ext LPS, SSD, Audirvana+3) was outputing via Ethernet to the Rednet 3, then SPDIF and clocked to my DACs. The USB board in the Kassandra equals the Ethernet on smooth treble, slightly better I think, but the soundstage goes huge on USB. How an Ethernet to iS2 would fair I am unsure, possibly I am hearing the limits of SPDIF back to i2S? But I am pleased as controlling sample rates with USB is easier on my setup.

I am curious if playing my same files on the internal SSD of the Mac Mini would be better still. I'll try that soon and report back. One thing to watch on a Mac is setting Audio Midi correctly. If you have 96k files mixed with 44.1 you need to set it each time to the relevant rate, as if you set it to 96k or higher, the Mac OS will upsample it first, which is not a good idea.
 

Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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Steve, do you know if there is any benefit having an external firewire connected drive with my music on, or using the internal SSD on the Mac Mini? I am wondering if keeping the files of the computer is good, but I am not sure as have not tried the files off the internal SSD, mainly a it isn't big enough. But I see I can now get a 1GB SSD so that is now possible. Thoughts.....
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
207
150
Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
Interesting, thanks. Until last week I was really done with USB audio. But I have changed DACs to the Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref II and it beats my Rednet3 on sound quality. My Mac Mini (modded with 12V uptone audio board and ext LPS, SSD, Audirvana+3) was outputing via Ethernet to the Rednet 3, then SPDIF and clocked to my DACs. The USB board in the Kassandra equals the Ethernet on smooth treble, slightly better I think, but the soundstage goes huge on USB. How an Ethernet to iS2 would fair I am unsure, possibly I am hearing the limits of SPDIF back to i2S? But I am pleased as controlling sample rates with USB is easier on my setup.

I am curious if playing my same files on the internal SSD of the Mac Mini would be better still. I'll try that soon and report back. One thing to watch on a Mac is setting Audio Midi correctly. If you have 96k files mixed with 44.1 you need to set it each time to the relevant rate, as if you set it to 96k or higher, the Mac OS will upsample it first, which is not a good idea.

I don't find local files to sound any different than those on an external disk. I use a large external RAID1 for all of my music.

With Ethernet, I don't have to worry about Audio Midi or any other computer audio stack.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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Mac Mini tweak (FREE)
I have my Mac Mini fairly sorted. A 250 meg SSD, 8 GB Ram, Audirvana+ 3 running without iTunes, No upsampling or volume. System stripped right back to the bare bones (Mavericks).

Anyway, I changed my DAC a few weeks ago, and moved from Ethernet output for my music via a Rednet 3 router which reclocked it and sent it out as SPDIF. On the new DAC the USB beats SPDIF which surprised me.
So now back on using USB.

Thus I realised I can now turn wifi off on the Mac Mini and use Ethernet for screen sharing. Hooked it up and bingo - nice upgrade there, the treble on female vocals is very slightly smoother. It took me 4 or 5 A>Bs on the same 15 seconds track segment to spot it, but it is there. The last vestiges of the dreaded digital front end? It is subtle but I can hear it.

Next I read a while back you can create a RAM disc and put the player software on that sector. I did that, reloaded my library, and there was another very slight improvement, again in the upper treble range.

Those small improvements are very nice, and it is FREE! Which is the best bit, not many upgrades in this hobby are free.

Only hassle is if I listen to Tidal I need to switch wifi back on, but that is no issue, takes seconds. I remember lots of fiddling on bookshelves for that CD I couldn't find. I never enjoyed that as much as taking vinyl out of the sleeves, but that is another subject.
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
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I'll likely be comparing an Innous server to my present stripped down Macbook Pro soon, will report back.
 

Legolas

VIP/Donor
Dec 27, 2015
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id say mac mini is better IMO

Indeed. The fact the mini has no monitor is a big difference (interference). I modded my Mac Mini and these were the approximate gains:

1. Base unit outputting USB = score 65
2. SSD and 16 GIG RAM upgrade = 70
3. Uptone Audio MMK 12v DC board kit = 85
4. HD Plex Linear Power Supply = 90
5. Stripped back system and turning ALL non essentials off such as Wifi and Bluetooth = 95

So to get the Mini to show what it can do, you need all the above IMO.

Lately I went back to Roon and found it beats the others now - Audirvana+, Amarra, Puremusic.

I don't upsample, but feed my DAC as is data rates.

Hope this helps
:rolleyes:
 

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