Suggestions: SOTA Ethernet Server for a DAC Renderer

Armsan

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2016
216
226
175
Portugal
I jus want to share my findings...
In my system the best SQ ever was achieved with MSB Renderer module.
Over the years I tried a lot of different settings: Dual PC windows server, with AO, Fidelizer, JPLAY, Foobar. Then moved to single PC, a DIY based on a PinK Faun AV Streamer PSU, Ubuntu Server now 17.10, and it's a different story, for the better. I don’t want remote control so I installed a DHCP server. This way a don’t need to use a switch between the server and the MSB Renderer.
This was with the MSB Diamond V. Now I have the Select DAC and, although via USB, it beats the Diamond Renderer.
So I hope the story repeats itself, even better, as long as I receive the new MSB Renderer module.
Wrapping up: I learned that the SQ is higher as long as we keep it simple/shorter.
A very good new year for all of you.
Armsan
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
25
140
USA
I jus want to share my findings...
In my system the best SQ ever was achieved with MSB Renderer module.
Over the years I tried a lot of different settings: Dual PC windows server, with AO, Fidelizer, JPLAY, Foobar. Then moved to single PC, a DIY based on a PinK Faun AV Streamer PSU, Ubuntu Server now 17.10, and it's a different story, for the better. I don’t want remote control so I installed a DHCP server. This way a don’t need to use a switch between the server and the MSB Renderer.
This was with the MSB Diamond V. Now I have the Select DAC and, although via USB, it beats the Diamond Renderer.
So I hope the story repeats itself, even better, as long as I receive the new MSB Renderer module.
Wrapping up: I learned that the SQ is higher as long as we keep it simple/shorter.
A very good new year for all of you.
Armsan

Armsan,

Thank you very much for your insightful post. I would very much like to clarify a point. I understand ethernet to the MSB Renderer was the best SQ you achieved on your Dac V. Are you saying all the different sources you reference were connected to the Renderer or were you using them as USB sources before you concluded the Renderer was best?

If this is the case, may I ask if you tried different components as the ethernet source to the MSB Renderer and whether they made a difference in the SQ of the Renderer? If so which was best?

If this was not the case and you tried all these options as ethernet sources, am I correct in concluding the only thing that made a difference in SQ was going direct to the Render with a DHCP?
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
I jus want to share my findings...
In my system the best SQ ever was achieved with MSB Renderer module.
Over the years I tried a lot of different settings: Dual PC windows server, with AO, Fidelizer, JPLAY, Foobar. Then moved to single PC, a DIY based on a PinK Faun AV Streamer PSU, Ubuntu Server now 17.10, and it's a different story, for the better. I don’t want remote control so I installed a DHCP server. This way a don’t need to use a switch between the server and the MSB Renderer.
This was with the MSB Diamond V. Now I have the Select DAC and, although via USB, it beats the Diamond Renderer.
So I hope the story repeats itself, even better, as long as I receive the new MSB Renderer module.
Wrapping up: I learned that the SQ is higher as long as we keep it simple/shorter.
A very good new year for all of you.
Armsan

That's why I'm very excited for the new MSB Renderer module! In the DAC V (and in the Analog DAC as well), avoiding the USB and going with the Renderer always gave the best results, even when using best-of-the-best USB-based servers, like an SGM.

The only drawback with the existing module is that it is UPNP-based. It works fine, but once you're used to Roon, it's hard to go back to anything else. That's why MSB set out to improve the Renderer module, including support for Roon, among other things.

Unless you have an extremely robust network and a NAS already, a good server like the Innuos is a must, with a built-in Ethernet filtered switch.


cheers,
alex
 

Armsan

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2016
216
226
175
Portugal
Paul,
Before the Renderer I did feed my DACs by USB. Playback Designs, MSB Analog DAC and EMM Labs with various server setups, SW and HW but always by USB. The SQ was always getting better. Then I settled down with Linux, being, for my ears and in my system, superior to all types of windows OS. Not needing USB driver, like macOS, is by my experience a major advantage.
Then came the Diamond V with QUAD USB and Renderer module. With the same, and my actual PC server, the Renderer module was superior. Even using a JCAT usb PCiE card externally powered. The Ethernet connection between the server and the Renderer was then, through a PPA tweaked switch. Then I read about the DHCP server. It was hard to install but rewarding. Switch out and another layer of noise was dismissed. For further improvement I use Pink Faun LAN isolators, one on each end of a synergistic research lan cable. I use minimserver and the control app is a very light and simple one, Upplay.
But let me be very clear: because of the DAC quality, not the connection type, even by USB, the Select is superior to the Diamond by Renderer.
So it’s a very simple HW setup, I think. Not having a connection between your music server and your home router is very important, because the processor doesn’t need to be occupied all the time with those tasks.
Better than this..., well maybe the future MSB transport with the glass connection to the DAC.
Hope it helps.
Armsan
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
25
140
USA
That's why I'm very excited for the new MSB Renderer module! In the DAC V (and in the Analog DAC as well), avoiding the USB and going with the Renderer always gave the best results, even when using best-of-the-best USB-based servers, like an SGM.

The only drawback with the existing module is that it is UPNP-based. It works fine, but once you're used to Roon, it's hard to go back to anything else. That's why MSB set out to improve the Renderer module, including support for Roon, among other things.
alex

Agree 100%. Very excited to have my cake and eat it too......I2S and Roon!!!!!!


Unless you have an extremely robust network and a NAS already, a good server like the Innuos is a must, with a built-in Ethernet filtered switch.

Agree again; the only question is Innuos, Mojo or Melco>> :)
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
25
140
USA
Paul,
Before the Renderer I did feed my DACs by USB. Playback Designs, MSB Analog DAC and EMM Labs with various server setups, SW and HW but always by USB. The SQ was always getting better. Then I settled down with Linux, being, for my ears and in my system, superior to all types of windows OS. Not needing USB driver, like macOS, is by my experience a major advantage.
Then came the Diamond V with QUAD USB and Renderer module. With the same, and my actual PC server, the Renderer module was superior. Even using a JCAT usb PCiE card externally powered. The Ethernet connection between the server and the Renderer was then, through a PPA tweaked switch. Then I read about the DHCP server. It was hard to install but rewarding. Switch out and another layer of noise was dismissed. For further improvement I use Pink Faun LAN isolators, one on each end of a synergistic research lan cable. I use minimserver and the control app is a very light and simple one, Upplay.
But let me be very clear: because of the DAC quality, not the connection type, even by USB, the Select is superior to the Diamond by Renderer.
So it’s a very simple HW setup, I think. Not having a connection between your music server and your home router is very important, because the processor doesn’t need to be occupied all the time with those tasks.
Better than this..., well maybe the future MSB transport with the glass connection to the DAC.
Hope it helps.
Armsan

Thanks Armsan! Great stuff. Enjoy your awesome system.
 

Marcin_gps

VIP Donor/Industry Expert
Jun 24, 2015
232
163
420
jcat.eu
Paul,
Before the Renderer I did feed my DACs by USB. Playback Designs, MSB Analog DAC and EMM Labs with various server setups, SW and HW but always by USB. The SQ was always getting better. Then I settled down with Linux, being, for my ears and in my system, superior to all types of windows OS. Not needing USB driver, like macOS, is by my experience a major advantage.
Then came the Diamond V with QUAD USB and Renderer module. With the same, and my actual PC server, the Renderer module was superior. Even using a JCAT usb PCiE card externally powered. The Ethernet connection between the server and the Renderer was then, through a PPA tweaked switch. Then I read about the DHCP server. It was hard to install but rewarding. Switch out and another layer of noise was dismissed. For further improvement I use Pink Faun LAN isolators, one on each end of a synergistic research lan cable. I use minimserver and the control app is a very light and simple one, Upplay.
But let me be very clear: because of the DAC quality, not the connection type, even by USB, the Select is superior to the Diamond by Renderer.
So it’s a very simple HW setup, I think. Not having a connection between your music server and your home router is very important, because the processor doesn’t need to be occupied all the time with those tasks.
Better than this..., well maybe the future MSB transport with the glass connection to the DAC.
Hope it helps.
Armsan

Hi Armsan,

If you replace integrated motherboard ethernet controller with JCAT NET Card, you will not recognize your system :)
Happy New Year!

Best regards,
Marcin
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
25
140
USA
Hi Armsan,

If you replace integrated motherboard ethernet controller with JCAT NET Card, you will not recognize your system :)
Happy New Year!

Best regards,
Marcin

Marcin,

I think this is the same card that is used on the Mojo Sever I reference in the OP. From their website:

High-performance dedicated digital ports.
Our Deja Vu Music Server comes standard with dual Ethernet ports and and has the option to add up to four JCAT Femto Ethernet ports. This allows direct connectivity to multiple network devices, such as NAS/RAID drive arrays, network audio adapters (NAA), and an ISP without an external switch or router. Isolated in a ferrous shielded compartment, the optional JCAT Femto PCIe USB and JCAT Femto Ethernet cards can each be independently powered by our Internal Regulator Modules.

I have been wondering how well this Card works for filtering noise as compared to the Innuous Zenith mk ii which references the following on their website:

Dual Ethernet Ports for LAN and Streamer with isolation transformers.

Do you have any experience with how these compare? Can you expand on how good the noise filtering is on the JCAT Femto?
 

Armsan

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2016
216
226
175
Portugal
Hello Marcin,
Glad to read You!
Thank You. No doubt. It´s on my radar.
Cheers.
Armsan
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
25
140
USA
Anyone with experience comparing the Jcat Femto Ethernet Card to the transformer ethernet port isolation used by Zenith mk ii?
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
25
140
USA
Is the card supported by Linux?

For what it's worth the Mojo server has both a Linux option and JCAT Ethernet Card option. Below is from the Mojo Audio Website:

Our Deja Vu Music Server is optimized for 24-bit 192KHz PCM, DSD, and MQA music streaming. Optional high-performance JCAT Femto USB and/or optional JCAT Femto Ethernet cards.

Comes with a minimized Linux operating system, Roon Server, and lifetime Roon membership.
 

Marcin_gps

VIP Donor/Industry Expert
Jun 24, 2015
232
163
420
jcat.eu
Marcin,

I think this is the same card that is used on the Mojo Sever I reference in the OP. From their website:
I have been wondering how well this Card works for filtering noise as compared to the Innuous Zenith mk ii which references the following on their website:
Do you have any experience with how these compare? Can you expand on how good the noise filtering is on the JCAT Femto?

Zenith uses network controller built-into motherboard. It's a good industrial motherboard from supermicro. I've built many music servers based on these motherboards and can confirm that they're good for audio playback, much better than commercial motherboards. That said, adding a specialized controller such as JCAT NET to the supermicro board improves SQ dramatically. The same goes for USB card. Not only chipset is higher spec, but all components on the card are much better quality including the crystek femto clock and ultra-low noise power supplies (there are no switching power supplies on the card).

Hello Marcin,
Glad to read You!
Thank You. No doubt. It´s on my radar.
Cheers.
Armsan

:)

Anyone with experience comparing the Jcat Femto Ethernet Card to the transformer ethernet port isolation used by Zenith mk ii?

Is the card supported by Linux?

Yes it is.

Best regards,
Marcin
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
25
140
USA
Marcin, I am very curious if you have a view about the Mojo Deja Vu. It seems exceptionally well done with your JCAT Femto included as an option but the company is pretty small. What do you think of the components used and overall design?
 

Marcin_gps

VIP Donor/Industry Expert
Jun 24, 2015
232
163
420
jcat.eu
Will your USB and Network cards fit into the Innuos chassis?

Which model?

Marcin, I am very curious if you have a view about the Mojo Deja Vu. It seems exceptionally well done with your JCAT Femto included as an option but the company is pretty small. What do you think of the components used and overall design?

Yes, I have a view about the Mojo server. They use very good power supplies which they make themselves. Industrial low-noise motherboard from a different maker (not supermicro), but also good. Plus the JCAT cards are powered independently. It's a great build. From technical point of view it has an edge over Innuos. Innuos has a nicer enclosure and their software seems very easy to use.

BR,
Marcin
 

Pb Blimp

Well-Known Member
Oct 30, 2017
518
25
140
USA
Which model?



Yes, I have a view about the Mojo server. They use very good power supplies which they make themselves. Industrial low-noise motherboard from a different maker (not supermicro), but also good. Plus the JCAT cards are powered independently. It's a great build. From technical point of view it has an edge over Innuos. Innuos has a nicer enclosure and their software seems very easy to use.

BR,
Marcin

Marcin, Very, very helpful.
 

limniscate

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2016
34
1
136
Which model?



Yes, I have a view about the Mojo server. They use very good power supplies which they make themselves. Industrial low-noise motherboard from a different maker (not supermicro), but also good. Plus the JCAT cards are powered independently. It's a great build. From technical point of view it has an edge over Innuos. Innuos has a nicer enclosure and their software seems very easy to use.

BR,
Marcin

SE
 

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