Golden Gate 2 Reactions

abeidrov · Sep 20, 2018

Sablon Audio said:
Agreed but I think people have simply been using them in series on hot output. Lampi dacs typically run quite hot on the output voltage, up to 6v rather than the 2v standard

I wonder why Lukasz does that (high output voltage on dacs). Even with 300B I normally listen at the 9 o'clock position on my pre. I've found this quote at Rothwell site:
"Here's the solution to a problem from which far too many audiophiles suffer - too much gain in the system. The symptoms are easy enough to spot - the volume is plenty loud enough with the volume control set to the 9 o'clock position, too loud with the volume control at 10 o'clock, and fine control at low levels is impossible. This may seem like nothing more than a minor irritation, but in truth the performance of the system is being compromised. Although potentiometers work reasonably well over most of their operating range, they are notoriously problematic at extreme settings. The most obvious problem is channel imbalance - one channel will fade out (or fade in) quicker than the other, causing the stereo image to shift to one side - but on a more subtle level, the music may sound veiled and indistinct with the volume control turned down to the point where it is nearly off".
Is this true? Is the sound quality affected in any way, if I usually listen at the 9 o'clock position?
Thanks.

Sablon Audio · Sep 20, 2018

I think the history might be to have sufficient gain for his passive volume stage

bonzo75 · Sep 20, 2018

abeidrov said:
I wonder why Lukasz does that (high output voltage on dacs). Even with 300B I normally listen at the 9 o'clock position on my pre. I've found this quote at Rothwell site:
"Here's the solution to a problem from which far too many audiophiles suffer - too much gain in the system. The symptoms are easy enough to spot - the volume is plenty loud enough with the volume control set to the 9 o'clock position, too loud with the volume control at 10 o'clock, and fine control at low levels is impossible. This may seem like nothing more than a minor irritation, but in truth the performance of the system is being compromised. Although potentiometers work reasonably well over most of their operating range, they are notoriously problematic at extreme settings. The most obvious problem is channel imbalance - one channel will fade out (or fade in) quicker than the other, causing the stereo image to shift to one side - but on a more subtle level, the music may sound veiled and indistinct with the volume control turned down to the point where it is nearly off".
Is this true? Is the sound quality affected in any way, if I usually listen at the 9 o'clock position?
Thanks.

You can adjust the Lampi gain by sending back. At the end of the day instead of reading on the Rothwell site you have to decide if the end result sounds right to you or if you hear a channel imbalance. In analog too different carts have different gains. Here by rolling tubes and finding the right pre you have to manage the overall gain.

abeidrov · Sep 20, 2018

bonzo75 said:
You can adjust the Lampi gain by sending back. At the end of the day instead of reading on the Rothwell site you have to decide if the end result sounds right to you or if you hear a channel imbalance. In analog too different carts have different gains. Here by rolling tubes and finding the right pre you have to manage the overall gain.

Sending the dac back and living without music for 2 - 3 months is not an viable option imho. I am not worried about a channel imbalance, and I do not hear any. Also, I did not hear any sound degradation, when I compared my previous dac, Lampi L4, to the Aqua Formula. Just curious, if the quoted statement above has some merit.

Zero000 · Sep 21, 2018

Here we go. Much cheaper molybdenum valves, including a 300B.

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/09/new-audio-notek-uk-211-and-300b-tubes.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&m=1

Oops just realised someone raised a thread for these...

Golum · Sep 27, 2018

I guess with Lampi stuff you really need to know what you want due to huge number of options and the urge to play with the output tubes. During the course of the months I discovered that having balanced version of GG is just not for me as it was limiting me in swapping the tubes (too difficult to find matched quads of NOS and also to expensive in any other iteration) and also having the active preamp i really did not need volume control in GG.
So now equipped with the exact idea what i want, i ordered with again massive help of Wisnon single end version of Golden Gate 2 with the new heater selector and new RK 5u4g recti tube.
Yesterday it arrived and I'm honestly in a total heaven. It is not Pacific (will get there one day) but for me GG2 is such a big step forward vs GG that I'm quite shocked. I mean everything is just so much better that i was barely able to go to bed yesterday night. Also output voltage seems to perfectly fit my ARC Ref6 so the two of them are completely and madly in love.
And by the way all listening was done from dead cold DAC and with cheap Chinese 274b recti and Psvane 300b UK design. After it gets a bit burned in tube rolling games will begin.
Anyhow whoever is contemplating if upgrade from GG to GG2 is worthwhile doing (if you don't want to or can't reach for Pacific) IMHO this a fantastic way to go up the sonic ladder.

Secondly few days ago I also changed WireWorld Platinum Starlight USB cable with FTA (Final Touch Audio) Callisto USB cable and mamma mia this one completely destroyed WW - in fluidity, bass extension, decay, tone color,...and actually quite a few guys (all Lampi owners did the same thing - swapping their cables with this one).

So with this last few changes - one is still on the way (FTA RCA cable) i believe i will be set and quite for some time without any itches to change some gear (tube rolling excluded )

Cheers;
G

bonzo75 · Sep 27, 2018

Goran, I told you many months ago when you joined the Lampi chat to go non balanced. None of the balanced Lampi guys (Sujay and Elberoth included), have managed to try out various valves on the Lampi, which is the key to optimizing Lampi.

Regarding GG and GG2. Did both your versions have Mundorf caps? And you are comparing both with same valves? I think your GG1 was balanced, and GG2 not?

Golum · Sep 27, 2018

bonzo75 said:
Goran, I told you many months ago when you joined the Lampi chat to go non balanced. None of the balanced Lampi guys (Sujay and Elberoth included), have managed to try out various valves on the Lampi, which is the key to optimizing Lampi.

Regarding GG and GG2. Did both your versions have Mundorf caps? And you are comparing both with same valves? I think your GG1 was balanced, and GG2 not?

Hi Ked! Yes you advised back than to go with SE instead of Bal but at that moment I already ordered or even received Bal version so i could not go back but in nutshell you've been totally right!
GG1 vs GG2 i've tried with exactly same tubes but the difference is indeed the cap as in GG i had Duelund and this time after listening myself Der Siebener with Mundorf and Chris GG with Mundorf topped with Fikus preference to go with Mundorf i took it with those and I love it.

BTW we will be revisiting Stenheim with Pacific with Norman and this time I'll advise the timing upfront so that you can plan your time if you would like to join.

bonzo75 · Sep 27, 2018

Very interesting. I have GG1 with Jupiter and it was better than the GG2 with Mundorf, that was the prototype GG2 with the two additional valves in the middle (like Pacific). My GG was better than a Mundorf GG made near the same time as mine. This was not only my impression but also the owners of that GG and GG2. I think frankly it is difficult to say why but they do change from dac to dac so I am not changing mine until I put it next to a GG2 that sounds better. In which case, I will get an exact replica of that GG2. Might have to come over to yours with my GG.

I can do Oct 13/14 weekend for Stenheim and possibly Lampi vs Lampi

Golum · Sep 27, 2018

bonzo75 said:
Might have to come over to yours with my GG.

I can do Oct 13/14 weekend for Stenheim and possibly Lampi vs Lampi

Stenheim we can't organize until Pac comes back from the visit to Chris and this won't happen until end of Oct I would say. Weekend 13/14.10 I'm around but planning to go to Lyon to HiFi show there. Lampi vs Lampi we can organize whenever you can but would be cool to go to Stenheim together.

Cheers;
G

bonzo75 · Sep 27, 2018

Ok, so November then. I can't do first weekend for sure

Zero000 · Sep 27, 2018

That GG2 heater selector switch is a good thing.

Here's some readings from my DAC, an original but now extensively modified unit. It uses the heater sensing tech, but it has been optimized for 4V and 5V valves.

Valve Set 1: KR Audio PX-4

1. Cathode / Heater 5.76
2. Plate/Anode 76
3. Grid 1.16
4.Cathode / Heater 9.6

Heater: 3.9 (should be 4V)

Valve Set 2: PSVANE 2A3-T (black glass)

1. Cathode / Heater 7.2
2. Plate/Anode 66
3. Grid 1.16
4.Cathode / Heater 9.5

Heater: 2.167 (should be 2.5V)

Valve Set 3: PX-4 (original Marconi PX4 B4 to UX4 base adapted)

1. Cathode / Heater 4.23
2. Plate/Anode 73.8
3. Grid 1.16
4.Cathode / Heater 9.9

Heater: 4.23 (should be 4V)

Emission Labs are absolutely adamant that a 4V heater valve should get 4V as an input, not 3.9, 3.8 etc, but 4V. That way, you'll get maximum life and under no other circumstances. But if you swap valves a lot, I don't think it is going to be that much of an issue.

As you can see, the Lampi circuit is way off for a 2.5V valve. But to be fair we did optimise it four 4V and 5V valves recently, so that is why.

But the point is made - if your DAC has a two position switch, there's no way you are going to be close to the spec'd voltage for valves it hasn't been optimized for.

I am going to mod mine again so it is exact for 3 different valves - actual manufacturers valves as the readings between even PX4s vary, as you can see above.

So even between two PX4s, there's a 0.323V difference. Not bad, just not optimal for the obsessed. Could you hear it if it was bang on as opposed to these values? I seriously doubt it, but maybe for the 2A3.

bonzo75 · Sep 27, 2018

There are no more Lampi's being made for 2a3.

I told you when you started nodding your Lampi that engineers will tell you how specific a voltage has to be for certain valves. This is based on their understanding of amps, not the Lampi dac. I tried to in my big 7, and it sounded worse.

Can Lampi be optimized for certain valves? Yes. But I would let Lukasz and team do that.

Zero000 · Sep 27, 2018

bonzo75 said:
There are no more Lampi's being made for 2a3.

I told you when you started nodding your Lampi that engineers will tell you how specific a voltage has to be for certain valves. This is based on their understanding of amps, not the Lampi dac. I tried to in my big 7, and it sounded worse.

Can Lampi be optimized for certain valves? Yes. But I would let Lukasz and team do that.

Hm. So why would Lucasz specifically state that the rotary switch improves valve life by getting the voltages more correct then?

The valve voltage matching and readings you see above were done by Lampizator post mods.

Emission Labs are perfectly aware what my valves are being installed in, yet still provide that advice.

bonzo75 · Sep 27, 2018

All I am saying is if you want to optimize a valve let Lukasz do it.

Zero000 · Sep 27, 2018

bonzo75 said:
All I am saying is if you want to optimize a valve let Lukasz do it.

But he doesn't do it. One of the lab techs does.

It's just electronics, Ked. There is no magic. Lampi DACs obey the same laws as other electronics. Competent engineers can and are capable of working on what is basically not a particularly complex circuit.

bonzo75 · Sep 27, 2018

User211 said:
But he doesn't do it. One of the lab techs does.

It's just electronics, Ked. There is no magic. Lampi DACs obey the same laws as other electronics. Competent engineers can and are capable of working on what is basically not a particularly complex circuit.

By Lukasz I mean him or one of his techs. I have met enough engineers who say it is simple engineering and then fuk up a mod. Anyway this will hopefully force you to ditch your box and get the GG

Zero000 · Sep 27, 2018

bonzo75 said:
By Lukasz I mean him or one of his techs. I have met enough engineers who say it is simple engineering and then fuk up a mod. Anyway this will hopefully force you to ditch your box and get the GG

Don't be ridiculous my box is now sounding better than first gen GGs... bring yours next time if you don't believe me

Zero000 · Sep 27, 2018

Sorry correction for post above.

The heater and other readings were done by a third party engineer, not Lampizator.

The circuit mods to optimise for 4V and 5V valves were done by Lampizator and I think it looks like a job well done for that aspect of the DAC.

ingemar · Oct 1, 2018

Hi all.
Another question for you,any of you thought about upgrading the "clocks" on the amanero card to pulsar?and is it do able?By the way i didn't need any resistors on the output in my gg.
Kindly/Ingemar

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