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Thread: For those using Ethernet to your DAC

  1. #31
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    Crossover Cables

    Unless it is a matter of placing Internet connected computers or ethernet-enabled storage devices some distance from the DAC, etc., or just because of convenience, why don't people use a high quality CAT 5/6/7 crossover cable and eliminate the intermediate switch/router within the home system?

    A crossover cable is thus used to connect one LAN adapter to another without the need for an intermediary. We used to use crossover cables all the time for troubleshooting when I was on one of the several companies teams developing Thin-Wire Ethernet and many generations afterwards. We also used them to test and effect computer-computer transfers, etc. I don't recall ever having a length or noise issue in labs or customer sites. Note that switchs, etc., were developed so many computers, etc., could talk to each other in a large intranet. Audio purity was not a consideration.

    Having a dedicated switch with special power supplies, etc., just for audio seems like it is adding unneeded complexity from a systems point of view unless there is the geography/distance within the home or studio, problem.

    Consider that the Accuphase HS-Link and HS-2-Link cables are a direct link from device to device, e.g. transport to DAC using Ethernet cables with RJ-45 connectors. How they are wired, and whether they are a (variant on a) standard crossover cable I do not know having never tested one. Their devices are in the highest echelon of audio reproduction and clever people, have been using it since SACD came out, maybe before. Same goes for I2S but it uses a non-RJ-45 connector, I think.
    Last edited by Bso; 12-03-2017 at 05:28 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bso View Post
    Crossover Cables

    Unless it is a matter of placing Internet connected computers or ethernet-enabled storage devices some distance from the DAC, etc., or just because of convenience, why don't people use a high quality CAT 5/6/7 crossover cable and eliminate the intermediate switch/router within the home system?

    A crossover cable is thus used to connect one LAN adapter to another without the need for an intermediary. We used to use crossover cables all the time for troubleshooting when I was on one of the several companies teams developing Thin-Wire Ethernet and many generations afterwards. We also used them to test and effect computer-computer transfers, etc. I don't recall ever having a length or noise issue in labs or customer sites. Note that switchs, etc., were developed so many computers, etc., could talk to each other in a large intranet. Audio purity was not a consideration.

    Having a dedicated switch with special power supplies, etc., just for audio seems like it is adding unneeded complexity from a systems point of view unless there is the geography/distance within the home or studio, problem.

    Consider that the Accuphase HS-Link and HS-2-Link cables are a direct link from device to device, e.g. transport to DAC using Ethernet cables with RJ-45 connectors. How they are wired, and whether they are a (variant on a) standard crossover cable I do not know having never tested one. Their devices are in the highest echelon of audio reproduction and clever people, have been using it since SACD came out, maybe before. Same goes for I2S but it uses a non-RJ-45 connector, I think.
    Interesting timing, I'm on a CA thread where the same suggestion and testing came up and 1 member is reporting a sonic benefit. The only problem as you stated is - if you need internet access, and / or remote access. I guess you could run 2 NICs on your music server 1 to your router 1 direct like you suggested.
    3x20A circuits | PS Audio PPP | Music PC (DEQ, HQPlayer, Roon) | HDPLex LPSU -> UltraCap LPS-1 -> Sonore Ultrarendu D->D | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula DAC | Purity Audio Silver Statement preamp | Wells Audio Innamorata amp (mid/tweet) | Musical Fidelity A3CR amp (woofers)| Usher BE20D speakers with GR Research upgrade | 2: JL Audio F113 subs | JPS Labs SC3 ICs + Aluminata/SC2 SCs | Stillpoints, BD cones | Custom birch rack | Fully treated + dedicated 2 channel room)

  3. #33
    Addicted to Best! Pb Blimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bso View Post
    Crossover Cables

    Unless it is a matter of placing Internet connected computers or ethernet-enabled storage devices some distance from the DAC, etc., or just because of convenience, why don't people use a high quality CAT 5/6/7 crossover cable and eliminate the intermediate switch/router within the home system?

    A crossover cable is thus used to connect one LAN adapter to another without the need for an intermediary. We used to use crossover cables all the time for troubleshooting when I was on one of the several companies teams developing Thin-Wire Ethernet and many generations afterwards. We also used them to test and effect computer-computer transfers, etc. I don't recall ever having a length or noise issue in labs or customer sites. Note that switchs, etc., were developed so many computers, etc., could talk to each other in a large intranet. Audio purity was not a consideration.

    Having a dedicated switch with special power supplies, etc., just for audio seems like it is adding unneeded complexity from a systems point of view unless there is the geography/distance within the home or studio, problem.

    Consider that the Accuphase HS-Link and HS-2-Link cables are a direct link from device to device, e.g. transport to DAC using Ethernet cables with RJ-45 connectors. How they are wired, and whether they are a (variant on a) standard crossover cable I do not know having never tested one. Their devices are in the highest echelon of audio reproduction and clever people, have been using it since SACD came out, maybe before. Same goes for I2S but it uses a non-RJ-45 connector, I think.
    Yes, for me this discussion has been about a system that is internet connected for downloads and streaming. Of course, if you don't need to be connected to the internet you don't need to isolate the connection. The point here is that you can connect to the internet through a couple of simple steps and do so with no SQ compromise. As addressed above, IMO the best approach is to eliminate all of the voltage leaks that can still pass through ethernet copper even though it is galvanically isolated by going to glass. But others here have there own ideas.
    Paul

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  4. #34
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    I also use those optical convertors and power them from 18000mhn battery power packs it does seem to clean up the noise floor ,and the final connection is an Audioquest Diamond ethernet cable into a Linn DS Katalyst Klimax streamer .I've used this solution for the last 2 years and it works well ,better than using the wall wart supplies supplied with the TP link convertors .Have a look over on the Linn forums site people there have been solving these issues for years and have walked along this path long ago ,it may help you as Linn decided on Ethernet connection as the desired link when the fist released Their Klimax DS about 10 years ago.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pb Blimp View Post
    Yes, for me this discussion has been about a system that is internet connected for downloads and streaming. Of course, if you don't need to be connected to the internet you don't need to isolate the connection. The point here is that you can connect to the internet through a couple of simple steps and do so with no SQ compromise. As addressed above, IMO the best approach is to eliminate all of the voltage leaks that can still pass through ethernet copper even though it is galvanically isolated by going to glass. But others here have there own ideas.
    Sorry if I went off topic but I think both approaches can be effected together. Maybe I wasn't paying attention, since I left Ethernet engineering per se several decades ago but how are these voltage leaks measured? Are they common in well engineered "metal" cables and LAN adapters? However, I think on an absolute level fiber is better especially for the public Internet where the consideration is getting an increasingly high bandwidth signal to as many subscribers as possible.

    Could RussR and Pb Blimp please give me the links that they are referring to? I need to move into "digital" audio in a deeper way than I have for years, just spinning silver disks and making USB sticks!

    (In the old days we used to build our own PCs for the some of the same reasons as people today, mostly price/performance/open systems hardware.)

  6. #36
    Addicted to Best! Pb Blimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bso View Post
    Sorry if I went off topic but I think both approaches can be effected together. Maybe I wasn't paying attention, since I left Ethernet engineering per se several decades ago but how are these voltage leaks measured? Are they common in well engineered "metal" cables and LAN adapters? However, I think on an absolute level fiber is better especially for the public Internet where the consideration is getting an increasingly high bandwidth signal to as many subscribers as possible.

    Could RussR and Pb Blimp please give me the links that they are referring to? I need to move into "digital" audio in a deeper way than I have for years, just spinning silver disks and making USB sticks!

    (In the old days we used to build our own PCs for the some of the same reasons as people today, mostly price/performance/open systems hardware.)
    You can find a lot here by searching the subjects being discussed:

    https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/
    Paul

    Power - Torus 75 amp WMT. Furutech NCF Lines, Flux-50s, Outlets, PC's. Star ground.
    Cables - Nordost Valhalla 2 and Odin (phono).
    Analog Source- ARC Ref 10 Phono. Acoustic Sig Ascona MKII, TA-9000 arm, Lyra Atlas.
    Digital Source- MSB Reference DAC, Femto 33.
    Amplification - Soulution 721 Pre and 501 Monos.
    Speakers - Raidho D3.1
    Room Acoustics - Acoustic Frontiers Design, RPG Plates, Absorption and Diffraction, and Custom Helmholtz Traps.
    Stands - Solid Walnut by Timber Nation.

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