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Thread: New M1 Arriving

  1. #51
    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! Priaptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCottin View Post
    A few weeks ago I had the privilege of being invited once again to Priaptor home to listen to his updated system. Mainly the changes were Goebel cables and CH M1 amp instead of ARC. From previous visits I was familiar with the sound of the room, and also familiar with the sound of Nola’s reference speakers (although not this specific model) driven by ARC amps. The first thing I noticed was an immediate understanding of why top Nola are always shown with ARC amps. Its is not only because they sound great together, but also because ARC compliments very well the speaker design and covers any weak spot. The CH amp was so precise and refined that it left the speaker naked in comparasion. I do not mean this in a bad way, Priaptor Nola’s are reference level speakers and sound accordingly, but with the CH amp I could see what the speaker do best and where were any (mostly personal and subjective) shortcommings. The other interesting change is that for me with Nola,s you live for the mids and highs and go along with lows, but with the tight control and powerful lows brought by CH amp it almost reversed the perception: bass resolution and control was spectacular. Overall I was impressed by the upgrade. Never though that I would enjoy a SS amp, and even less that I would see one taking the spotlight at Priaptor’s, but the CH M1 earned this right on merits of its resolution, control and sound. Looking forward for the next upgrade to the system, as Priaptor’s meticulous setup and great music selection makes it always a great experience.
    Thanks for the comments. Yes I really think the system is special, looking forward to a few more tweaks as MSB has indicated that there are some ways to improve the sound. We will see. For the first time, I have absolutely no qualms about replacing my "TUBES" for a solid state. The Gobels cables and the CH Precision are a fantastic match. It's a treat for me every time I turn the thing on. Plus, the CH amp and Gobels cables, IMHO, are incredibly well made. Maybe not as gorgeous as the Dag had auditioned, but just beautifully made just the same. I am glad you enjoyed it.

  2. #52
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] microstrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackD201 View Post
    I personally would be wary of mixing with any component upstream with the risk of DC given that the M1s are direct coupled. My fears may be unfounded but I would stay solid state throughout if I were to mix at all. I would feel safest with an all CH setup albeit I've not seen any problems reported with DACs of other makes. As I haven't owned an ARC pre in forever and never owned a CJ, I don't really know if they leak DC every now and then. Maybe I'm just unlucky but all my all tube preamps pop.

    I had no issues using the Lamm L2R (tubes in PS only) with the M1s with digital while I was waiting for my L1 but I did have issues with the EMT phono through the L2R and L1 which would trip the amps protection circuitry at times when switches were flipped. So, I engaged the capacitors for DC offset via the menu (which solved it) but I did not like how it sounded compared to direct.I thus ordered a P1.

    The output impedance is not published AFAIK but I will ask Florian for you Micro.
    Thanks Jack. Now the difficult question - how do you compare the Lamm M1.2's to the CH M1?
    DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Soundlab A1 Px's while waiting for the XLF successor, EMT927, SME3012R, ARC Phono 3, Lamm ML1.2 Ref, Lamm L2ref, Stealth Dream speaker , Crystal Dreamline ICs, TA XL digital, TA XL gen V power cables, CenterStage footers and Nordost Qkore8's!

  3. #53
    [WBF Founding Member] Addicted to Best! JackD201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    Thanks Jack. Now the difficult question - how do you compare the Lamm M1.2's to the CH M1?
    The last time I compared them directly was with VR-9s. What they have in common is that they both avoid masking lower level musical lines while louder ones play. My test for this is Stanslav Richter playing the adagio in Liszt Piano Concerto No 1 (Philips). Where they diverge most is in the background. The Lamm Hybrids have dark backgrounds. The 2.2 is silky black and the 1.2R is velvety black. The M1s are clear. I attribute this to the second harmonics of the respective units and the tubes employed. As voltage swings widen the effect on the music material continues. Some might recall that I switched to first Mullard CV2492 then Valvos then Amperex Blue tips on 2.2s to get closer to the sound of stock 1.2Rs and Tele red tipped 1.2Rs with some success. I ultimately went with 2.2s because they dealt with the sealed mid bass units of the VR-9s better simply because of more available headroom given my large room and greater than usual listening distance (12ft vs the more typical 9ft for these speakers). At first the velvety background seems fuller but upon extended listening, in my case I found that part of that was a rounding of the nidbass perhaps due to under damping. As bass extends downward and hands over to the built in subs one notices some smearing on LF ambient cues that affect the portrayal of hall size. On the plus side the added harmonics accentuate the timbre of wood instruments and their resonances as well as middle registers on voices. This makes the 1.2s very appealing in that the sound while high in resolution is also both comforting and forgiving albeit they lack the transparency of their SET stablemates while delivering a similar tonal contour.

    The clear or colorless backgrounds of the M1 understandable affect the musical material as well. With the first switch to the M1 simply using the ear test for level matching the sound seems hard and thin. Whip the Phonic or RTA app out and one surprisingly finds that SPL is way up. Not sure why this is in terms of distortion spectra (lower odd order too perhaps?) but dropping it down to matched levels (my pink noise calibration point is always 85dB w/c is a common studio standard) the hardness is now gone and they are now sweet and pure for the same musical material most probably monitored at or close to the said standard. In any case the effect is that of expanded spatiality both between elements and of the soundscape. Timbre is no longer at the forefront as it is with the 1.2s even as timbre remains "correct" for both. The biggest difference would be in headroom as would be obvious with the specifications albeit this is highly speaker dependent as we all know. The clear background and scalable power manifests as added jump when called for. With the VR-9s in my room the 1.2s were thus more intimate and alluring with simpler recordings but more compressed with Big Band, Opera and large scale orchestra. I've actually clipped them on Big Band but I blame Keith Johnson and RR for that LOL! Neither display the typical SS grit or overt rounding so prevalent until the early 2000s. Where the M1 shines is in its consistency as one goes from soft to loud at least until you reach the point where you might saturate your driver electromagnetics. Something you will likely not do anyway once you ease your way and find the optimal nominal levelfor a recording and not jumping up accidentally as mentioned earlier. From the right nominal level, peaks above 100dB remain composed and not painful while delivering visceral shock. One needs to be mindful in fact because it is easy to stray into dangerous territory. The ability to control local feedback allows you to contour the punchiness of the bass but I find this more useful when in bi-amp mode as it also affects the upper registers.

    All I can remember for now I'll go over this again and add the KR VA200 in the mix as well when my Ultra 11s are home and settled
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  4. #54
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] microstrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackD201 View Post
    The last time I compared them directly was with VR-9s. What they have in common is that they both avoid masking lower level musical lines while louder ones play. My test for this is Stanslav Richter playing the adagio in Liszt Piano Concerto No 1 (Philips). Where they diverge most is in the background. The Lamm Hybrids have dark backgrounds. The 2.2 is silky black and the 1.2R is velvety black. The M1s are clear. I attribute this to the second harmonics of the respective units and the tubes employed. As voltage swings widen the effect on the music material continues. Some might recall that I switched to first Mullard CV2492 then Valvos then Amperex Blue tips on 2.2s to get closer to the sound of stock 1.2Rs and Tele red tipped 1.2Rs with some success. I ultimately went with 2.2s because they dealt with the sealed mid bass units of the VR-9s better simply because of more available headroom given my large room and greater than usual listening distance (12ft vs the more typical 9ft for these speakers). At first the velvety background seems fuller but upon extended listening, in my case I found that part of that was a rounding of the nidbass perhaps due to under damping. As bass extends downward and hands over to the built in subs one notices some smearing on LF ambient cues that affect the portrayal of hall size. On the plus side the added harmonics accentuate the timbre of wood instruments and their resonances as well as middle registers on voices. This makes the 1.2s very appealing in that the sound while high in resolution is also both comforting and forgiving albeit they lack the transparency of their SET stablemates while delivering a similar tonal contour.

    The clear or colorless backgrounds of the M1 understandable affect the musical material as well. With the first switch to the M1 simply using the ear test for level matching the sound seems hard and thin. Whip the Phonic or RTA app out and one surprisingly finds that SPL is way up. Not sure why this is in terms of distortion spectra (lower odd order too perhaps?) but dropping it down to matched levels (my pink noise calibration point is always 85dB w/c is a common studio standard) the hardness is now gone and they are now sweet and pure for the same musical material most probably monitored at or close to the said standard. In any case the effect is that of expanded spatiality both between elements and of the soundscape. Timbre is no longer at the forefront as it is with the 1.2s even as timbre remains "correct" for both. The biggest difference would be in headroom as would be obvious with the specifications albeit this is highly speaker dependent as we all know. The clear background and scalable power manifests as added jump when called for. With the VR-9s in my room the 1.2s were thus more intimate and alluring with simpler recordings but more compressed with Big Band, Opera and large scale orchestra. I've actually clipped them on Big Band but I blame Keith Johnson and RR for that LOL! Neither display the typical SS grit or overt rounding so prevalent until the early 2000s. Where the M1 shines is in its consistency as one goes from soft to loud at least until you reach the point where you might saturate your driver electromagnetics. Something you will likely not do anyway once you ease your way and find the optimal nominal levelfor a recording and not jumping up accidentally as mentioned earlier. From the right nominal level, peaks above 100dB remain composed and not painful while delivering visceral shock. One needs to be mindful in fact because it is easy to stray into dangerous territory. The ability to control local feedback allows you to contour the punchiness of the bass but I find this more useful when in bi-amp mode as it also affects the upper registers.

    All I can remember for now I'll go over this again and add the KR VA200 in the mix as well when my Ultra 11s are home and settled
    Thanks Jack - great post. I have read it twice and found that it needs a few more readings to get the whole of it. Very elucidating analogies for background!
    DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Soundlab A1 Px's while waiting for the XLF successor, EMT927, SME3012R, ARC Phono 3, Lamm ML1.2 Ref, Lamm L2ref, Stealth Dream speaker , Crystal Dreamline ICs, TA XL digital, TA XL gen V power cables, CenterStage footers and Nordost Qkore8's!

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackD201 View Post
    The last time I compared them directly was with VR-9s. What they have in common is that they both avoid masking lower level musical lines while louder ones play. My test for this is Stanslav Richter playing the adagio in Liszt Piano Concerto No 1 (Philips). Where they diverge most is in the background. The Lamm Hybrids have dark backgrounds. The 2.2 is silky black and the 1.2R is velvety black. The M1s are clear. I attribute this to the second harmonics of the respective units and the tubes employed. As voltage swings widen the effect on the music material continues. Some might recall that I switched to first Mullard CV2492 then Valvos then Amperex Blue tips on 2.2s to get closer to the sound of stock 1.2Rs and Tele red tipped 1.2Rs with some success. I ultimately went with 2.2s because they dealt with the sealed mid bass units of the VR-9s better simply because of more available headroom given my large room and greater than usual listening distance (12ft vs the more typical 9ft for these speakers). At first the velvety background seems fuller but upon extended listening, in my case I found that part of that was a rounding of the nidbass perhaps due to under damping. As bass extends downward and hands over to the built in subs one notices some smearing on LF ambient cues that affect the portrayal of hall size. On the plus side the added harmonics accentuate the timbre of wood instruments and their resonances as well as middle registers on voices. This makes the 1.2s very appealing in that the sound while high in resolution is also both comforting and forgiving albeit they lack the transparency of their SET stablemates while delivering a similar tonal contour.

    The clear or colorless backgrounds of the M1 understandable affect the musical material as well. With the first switch to the M1 simply using the ear test for level matching the sound seems hard and thin. Whip the Phonic or RTA app out and one surprisingly finds that SPL is way up. Not sure why this is in terms of distortion spectra (lower odd order too perhaps?) but dropping it down to matched levels (my pink noise calibration point is always 85dB w/c is a common studio standard) the hardness is now gone and they are now sweet and pure for the same musical material most probably monitored at or close to the said standard. In any case the effect is that of expanded spatiality both between elements and of the soundscape. Timbre is no longer at the forefront as it is with the 1.2s even as timbre remains "correct" for both. The biggest difference would be in headroom as would be obvious with the specifications albeit this is highly speaker dependent as we all know. The clear background and scalable power manifests as added jump when called for. With the VR-9s in my room the 1.2s were thus more intimate and alluring with simpler recordings but more compressed with Big Band, Opera and large scale orchestra. I've actually clipped them on Big Band but I blame Keith Johnson and RR for that LOL! Neither display the typical SS grit or overt rounding so prevalent until the early 2000s. Where the M1 shines is in its consistency as one goes from soft to loud at least until you reach the point where you might saturate your driver electromagnetics. Something you will likely not do anyway once you ease your way and find the optimal nominal levelfor a recording and not jumping up accidentally as mentioned earlier. From the right nominal level, peaks above 100dB remain composed and not painful while delivering visceral shock. One needs to be mindful in fact because it is easy to stray into dangerous territory. The ability to control local feedback allows you to contour the punchiness of the bass but I find this more useful when in bi-amp mode as it also affects the upper registers.

    All I can remember for now I'll go over this again and add the KR VA200 in the mix as well when my Ultra 11s are home and settled
    Hello Jack,
    I guess I didn't really understood all you wrote so I have to ask did you like the CH M-1?
    I know those speakers have an active part so there is some type of crossover being used in front he Ch as well. I felt the real strength of the amp is its top to bottom purity and its ability to retain this characteristic across the musical spectrum and at all volume levels. If you are playing music with different amplifiers, there are different sonic signatures and depending on where this occurs will certainly effect what you are hearing,
    For our info what is the crossover point?
    Thank you
    Bending Wave USA distributors of Gobel High End Loudspeakers and Cables 100 percent made in Germany
    Dealers for CH Precision

  6. #56
    [WBF Founding Member] Addicted to Best! JackD201's Avatar
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    I love my M1s Elliot. The rounding of the mid bass happens with the 1.2R not with 2.2s and not with the M1s both of which have more power. The crossover point to the active subs are 50Hz. I totally agree about the purity and consistency which I mentioned towards the end. The VA200 behaves similarly and that is why I will throw them into the mix when my new speakers arrive.

    You're welcome micro I tried to bi-amp with 1.2s and 2.2s and while the input sensitivities are very similar I found that there was a trade off in coherence. I ended up then bi-amping with 2 pairs of 2.2s and chased 1.2 sound with tubes on the top 2.2s. When the VR-11s replaced the 9s, a speaker my room was built for, I only needed one pair of 2.2s so my 1.2 was sold to an Alexia owner who now runs Aidas. As some of you guys know I sold the 11s in order to finance the Ultra 11s which will finally be shipping out soon. They are going through final measurement and QC testing now.

    The rotations will be AF1, SAT and Elite with all CH. D1,C1,X1. L1,P1,X1 and M1 monos. Same analog, CH digital with Lamm L2R, M2.2, LP2.1. same analog, Light Harmonic Dual Mk2, Aurender, Eera, P135 and VA200.

    Question is if and when I will add a T1 into the mix.
    Disclosure of Industry Participation

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  7. #57
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    WE will be exhibiting at Axpona room 594 and showing CH Precision L-1 preamp, M-1 stereo power amplifier and C-1 DAC these will Drive the Gobel Epoque Fine Speakers
    Bending Wave USA distributors of Gobel High End Loudspeakers and Cables 100 percent made in Germany
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    just delivered the Gobel Fine speakers yesterday to Priaptor going to set them up this Sunday along with the complete Gobel Lacorde cables already in the system with the M-1 and his MSB Select II. We will be showing these at Axpona with the CH Gear
    Bending Wave USA distributors of Gobel High End Loudspeakers and Cables 100 percent made in Germany
    Dealers for CH Precision

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot G. View Post
    just delivered the Gobel Fine speakers yesterday to Priaptor going to set them up this Sunday along with the complete Gobel Lacorde cables already in the system with the M-1 and his MSB Select II. We will be showing these at Axpona with the CH Gear
    Fantastic! Really looking forward to feedback on these speakers and this system.

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