Ch precision...p1

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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This all puts a huge smile on my face :D

Happy with my P1 too. Love how they can bring low output carts to life while getting exceptional SNR. Totally fuss free when set up. One cool detail is the wing nuts with itsy bananas for the ground legs of the phono cables. Florian and company really went into the tiny details to make life better for owners. Sweet, yet dynamic. Potent combination.
 
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Ron Resnick

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That’s a big heap of solid-state there, Shakti!

I am very happy for you that you’re enjoying it so much! :)
 

bonzo75

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Wow awesome
 

shakti

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May 9, 2015
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As their are different threads about the P1, I do a copy and paste of the P1 / Kondo comparison thread into this thread:

"The P1 has a low noise floor (but it is not the lowest noise floor I know), the P1 has on the voltage path 500 different resistors to choose.

Looking a little bit deeper into the Cartridge coil technology, the way the wire is done shows, that the most MC Carts have a minimal different coil wire length for the left and the right channel.

As an example, my Colibri Carts do have 1/3 of a round more on one channel. As we are talking only a few (mostly less than 5) rounds for the coil wire, in principle you never will give to a MC cart the best matching impedance, as left and right channel should be slightly different.

Juergen Ueltee, the developing mastermind behind the vdh Grail Phonostage showed me this facts with some measurements. So he decided to choose a current amplification stage for the Grail , which is MC Cartridge impedance independent.

This is a rarely chosen amplification method for a phono stage, but the P1 is doing the same on MC1 and MC2 input.

P1 (and the Grail) are giving to any (low DC / Coil resistance , < 40ohm) MC Cartridge the optimal load for both channels (as the current stage is load DC resistance independent )

Playing music with the P1 gives you the feeling, that it is just right, I assume, that this is coming from the logic, that both channels do have exactly the same amplification.

I know , that this might be a minor effect, but if you are in High End Carts and your gear is on the level, that you can hear the difference in torque of your tonearm screws, this minor effect can make the difference. "



Talking about P1 mainly might better be located here, comparison to Kondo better in the other thread.



As you can see in my current set up, I do not care about solid state or tubes, I just like to have the best result for me.

And current modern manufacturer show, that even solid state can make music, that even tubes can make bass and resolution...

Some manufacturers even have both in one unit, as VTL 7.5 Preamp, which is a perfect hybrid .

But.. I have to say, that I miss with Koda and P1 my beloved Tube Rolling..., so may be I have to do more on my VTL S-400 (current best amp to the Universum III) and Lampi Dac. The VTL S-400 runs with KT 88 , but too many to change just for fun...)

Juergen

ps
I still use the big blue monster..., now with a 2 Sperling motor set up, which is a good value for the money choice, J Sikora or Dereneville motor would be a little better .
 

bonzo75

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Hi, how do you rate the Grail to the audio specials and the thoress? Is the Grail a better fit for the vdh carts?
 
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shakti

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The Grail is a good fit to any MC Cart, as long the DC resistance is below 40 ohm.
sonic signature is a typical high resolution solid state, which is good for everybody who likes it.
I personally prefer a "warmer" texture for long time music listening.
the P1 has a warmer and richer sound than the Grail.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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. . .
As you can see in my current set up, I do not care about solid state or tubes, I just like to have the best result for me.

. . .

Very open-minded and non-ideological of you! :)

(I am breaking my arm patting myself on the back for relenting on my life-long 100% tube/zero transistors ideology by switching to solid-state bass tower amplification and to a solid-state output line stage preamplifier.)
 

Mini-Me

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Sep 8, 2020
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thank you.
btw i asked richard H mak about it, and he said that the X1 is pretty much a MUST have.
in his book, the 2 box P1 an X1 is the minimum to get of the configuration. i can afford the x1 right now, but also thinking maybe it will be better to save some and get the L1 first after having the P1.
Hi byrdparis,
it would be great to have an update on your experiences with the P1 after about 2 years. I am also interested in this phono stage. What are your impressions with regard to its reliability? As far as I understand, the X1 would be also an option which could make sense.
 

MadFloyd

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I know you haven't directed your question at me, but I thought I'd chime in and say that I think very highly of my P1, which I've had for a couple years now. I recently acquired an X1 and it makes a difference but I would never say that it is a must. The P1 is outstanding on its own.

I would find it very hard to go back to a phono stage without current inputs. I highly recommend the P1.
 

ack

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May 6, 2010
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I would find it very hard to go back to a phono stage without current inputs. I highly recommend the P1.

That's wonderful Ian!
 

MadFloyd

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Interestingly enough it was you who told me about the P1 so thank you!
 

ack

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May 6, 2010
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Interestingly enough it was you who told me about the P1 so thank you!

Yes, I have high respect for this unit; but it's out of my reach. Call if you feel the itch to ...de ;)
 

byrdparis

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Nov 24, 2015
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Hi byrdparis,
it would be great to have an update on your experiences with the P1 after about 2 years. I am also interested in this phono stage. What are your impressions with regard to its reliability? As far as I understand, the X1 would be also an option which could make sense.

Hi.
sorry for the delayed reply,
i am still with the P1 as it shown on my signature and basically i think it might be the best phono stage out there.
i still didnt get the X1 for my P1, but did get the C1 two months ago. so now if il bring the X1 i will need two modules :)
i am still not quiet sure how much the X1 will attribute to the whole presentation and overall performance, though i am very curious, but as always the high price for external psu suppress my drive to buy it and my attention continued to other equipment related.

regarding reliability, i had no issues what so ever!
i think it build like a tank and with very capable hands and minds! although it pack with technology its firm and steady operate.

I LOVE my P1.
for me its an end game phono preamp.
if i would want something different in the future (may be some tubes..) it will be an extra unit, not instead.
 

Mini-Me

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Sep 8, 2020
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Thanks a lot for your report, highly appreciated! Do you mainly use the current inputs? I own a MSL Signature Gold. This should work pretty well due to its low resistance.
 
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byrdparis

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Nov 24, 2015
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Thanks a lot for your report, highly appreciated! Do you mainly use the current inputs? I own a MSL Signature Gold. This should work pretty well due to its low resistance.
Your welcome.
i was reasserting all its capability over the two years, but i worked mainly with the mc1 and mc2 current inputs.
i got a tons of cartridges working with every inputs the P1 have, and all sounded great.
i recently (like a week ago) brought the MSL Titanium signature to my stable and i mounted it instead of my Ortofon Anna. on the KV12vta from Jsikora. using the MC1 input of course. this cart (and the gold i heard many times in the past few months at a close friend house) are superb sounding. the P1 LOVE those low resistance cartridges. you can hear so much music and in such a vibrant, vivid, black background way.
one of the best there is in my experience.
you can also see in the background the Etsuro urushi cobalt (on my Kuzma 4p) i'm trying on, comparing to the Bordeaux also connected to the current input.

IMG_3019.jpg
 

Mini-Me

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2020
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Thanks MadFloyd, thanks byrdparis! It is good to have some feedback on the P1 from real owners.

It is pretty interesting: The Etsuro is also one of my favorites. Finally, I made a decision pro MSL but the Etsuro will follow... Is the sonic character of both cartridges completely different?
 

gian60

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Apr 17, 2016
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I have L1 P1 and one X1 with 2 modules
I never bought a second X1 because have interest in L10
My friend has L1 P1 and X1 with 2 modules,and sound is much better than @1 and P1 without X1
But when 2 months ago he bought a second X1 without board because already has 2 the difference is very big with 2 X1
Listen immediately a more organic,Natural and more scene and dynamic
 

byrdparis

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2015
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Israel
Thanks MadFloyd, thanks byrdparis! It is good to have some feedback on the P1 from real owners.

It is pretty interesting: The Etsuro is also one of my favorites. Finally, I made a decision pro MSL but the Etsuro will follow... Is the sonic character of both cartridges completely different?

I supposed you can tell its coming from a same mind set... they are not completely different (in my book) but not so similar one can think.
i hear some differences in density, mid high and high notes.
the ETSURO Bordeaux is more dens sounding with a lot more mid timbre oriented. the Ti MSL is a lot more "modern" sounding cart with his Top end open and clear! but it got that punch a lot of Japanese old-school cartridges has. you need to twick the VTA more tord the bass area for it to sound balance. but when you achieved that balance it start to sing! its a real ultra high end cart, it got drive and gain! with a fines and highs to support.
the ETSURO line are real jam, they have this real life presentation, holographic touch and musical force that its VERY hard to beat!
 

byrdparis

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2015
427
478
295
Israel
H
I have L1 P1 and one X1 with 2 modules
I never bought a second X1 because have interest in L10
My friend has L1 P1 and X1 with 2 modules,and sound is much better than @1 and P1 without X1
But when 2 months ago he bought a second X1 without board because already has 2 the difference is very big with 2 X1
Listen immediately a more organic,Natural and more scene and dynamic
Hi Gian!
I'm sure the X1 will be a blessing upgrade to already TOTL phono stage and DAC i have,
but i need to conciser how much upgrade it will bring instead of buying something more substantial in consensus, like adding the L1 perhaps..
or upgrade some equipment i own to a more further in line.
the X1 is no small potato $ wise, if it were a lot cheaper i wouldn't think twice. the really mistery is, i hear a lot of different opinion about the X1 add on to the sound. some ppl are stating you cant hear anything without, that its a MUST have, and some... no so much, although say saying it will bump their game... but not to a considerably degree.
 

gian60

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Apr 17, 2016
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For our experience in our system,mine and my friend,if you can try at home you will buy,I think
 

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