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Thread: IEC inlet surgery - is it worth the hassle?

  1. #41
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Folsom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    Data? don't be silly.
    As to support, all you have to do is look at pro-audio. There is a lot of movement to Neutrik PowerCon connectors.
    Powercon has a better pattern without the ground in between the line and neutral.

    The IEC pattern helps suppress ground field to nothing, so it can't pick up a lot, like in Romex. But IEC doesn't really need that. With the IEC the fields extend out oblong directly from center, and pretty far... This can increase hum sometimes, but in general spreads more noise. The line and neutral fields don't really make contact in order to reduce their size. The conductors are inline.

    The PowerCon in contrast is in a shape like a triangle so all three interact some, helping to keep the fields smaller.

    Furthermore most of you are familiar with how loose the IEC plug fits into a jack, on average. Large cables often yank them in one direction so they are not perfectly straight. Sadly there is no price point where you don't see that. BUT the Powercon is secure, tight fit, with a lock. The actual contact area is larger because of this, and can exert pretty good compression.

    It would be nice if you could get a NCF powercon with rhodium coatings. That would be the beezneez. Oh, and it's hard as hell if not impossible to get 10ga to work on the 20a Powercon. You are better off with the beast 32a that cost a lot more.
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  2. #42
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] microstrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folsom View Post
    My apologies if I over estimated your electronics knowledge; I thought it was fairly in depth.

    If they NCF is mounted to the enclosure it can reduce the parasitics between the incoming AC and the enclosure. Basically it can surprise the transfer of RF from the enclosure to power, as the gap between the two in a schematic appears more like a tiny capacitor.

    Also the IEC plugs and jacks have funny shapes on top of being the 120v, which exerts a larger field that other stuff can pick up on. Once the wires come off the back of the IEC they can be tightly twisted to surprise those fields.

    You cannot get those benefits a few feet away. If the NCF parts are no where near the enclosure then they can only merely burn off a little RF from skin effect.
    Fortunately my knowledge of electronics is enough to know of my limitations when applied to stereo reproduction, something you seem not to master about you. No one knows exactly how these devices work, what materials are being used in them, how they behave versus frequency, all we have suppositions and broad sentences to impress people, involving fields without any proper quantification. BTW fortunately my knowledge is also in physics and electromagnestism - enough to understand when people are just trying to speak loud.

    BTW, I loved the "little RF from skin effect". I suggest that next time you try to impress people referring to "skin depth".

    Yes, these devices can change subjective sound quality. We only know it empirically from people experience . It is all we really know.
    DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Metronome Kalista / Kondo KSL DAC, Soundlab A1 Px's , EMT927, SME3012R, ARC Phono 3, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfried II, Stealth Dream speaker , Crystal Dreamline ICs, TA XL digital, TA XL gen V power cables, CenterStage footers and Nordost Qkore8's!

  3. #43
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] microstrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    Data? don't be silly.
    As to support, all you have to do is look at pro-audio. There is a lot of movement to Neutrik PowerCon connectors.
    Yes, silly people ask for data when debating electrical devices. As the non-silly people are too lazy to collected it I just did it Neutrik PowerCon advertise less than 12 or 5 mOhm contact resistance depending on type, I just measured between 4 and 9 mOhm in several sets of IEC for 16 and 20A that I have around.

    For me they are equivalent in terms of electrical quality. YMMV
    DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Metronome Kalista / Kondo KSL DAC, Soundlab A1 Px's , EMT927, SME3012R, ARC Phono 3, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfried II, Stealth Dream speaker , Crystal Dreamline ICs, TA XL digital, TA XL gen V power cables, CenterStage footers and Nordost Qkore8's!

  4. #44
    Addicted to Best! RogerD's Avatar
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    I wrap my female PC ends with teflon tape so the IEC / PC connection is tight and secure,they don't pull out.
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  5. #45
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Folsom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    Fortunately my knowledge of electronics is enough to know of my limitations when applied to stereo reproduction, something you seem not to master about you. No one knows exactly how these devices work, what materials are being used in them, how they behave versus frequency, all we have suppositions and broad sentences to impress people, involving fields without any proper quantification. BTW fortunately my knowledge is also in physics and electromagnestism - enough to understand when people are just trying to speak loud.

    BTW, I loved the "little RF from skin effect". I suggest that next time you try to impress people referring to "skin depth".

    Yes, these devices can change subjective sound quality. We only know it empirically from people experience . It is all we really know.
    This is all basic cable education, really. You could be learning something instead of being rude.

    Skin effect is the correct term in english. Click here, find "skin". This is basic cable education. Nothing about it need "impress' anyone.

    This isn't superstition for many of us. The question is almost always, "is it adding RF or subtracting it" for most of the things that come up in high end audio accessories. As far as we can tell, and are told, it uses a Piezo material that would reduce RF. The rest of their marketing is, well, who knows... When I refer to fields I am not talking about their marketing. I am talking about actual established facts that are ancient in the electronics world.
    Industry Affiliation: Folsom

  6. #46
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Folsom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerD View Post
    I wrap my female PC ends with teflon tape so the IEC / PC connection is tight and secure,they don't pull out.

    Nice idea to keep your IEC's from getting bent out of shape internally.
    Industry Affiliation: Folsom

  7. #47
    Moderator Moderator treitz3's Avatar
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    Hello gentlemen and good evening to you.

    Please discuss this topic cordially or we will remove you from the topic.

    If you need to take a day off, so be it to cool down. This WILL remain a civil discussion. This will be the last warning, period. Thank you for cooperating in a friendly discussion on the topic.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

    I post my own opinions except when posting as a moderator in green.

  8. #48
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] microstrip's Avatar
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    Audiophiles with knowledge of electronics and physics will always be moving in a marsh when debating tweaks, particularly in power systems, grounding or isolation. They will not please the "hard" scientists, mostly non believers, that consider most tweaks just as placebo effect, as science can not explain their interaction with electronics in clear and refereed ways.

    But they will also displease those who are believers and try to use science to explain their tweaks, particularly when they ask questions concerning their superficial and too general theories and explanations. Electromagnetic noise has a frequency and a magnitude, unless the debate can be quantified in hertz, volt or gauss it is just coffee talk.

    Ralph Morrison is very clear in the last version of his book on grounding and interference - considering the current spectra of noise due to high speed electronics, physics is needed to understand RFI interference. And, as far as I know, piezoelectric materials are not studied in electronics as noise suppressors and NCF is just a trade reference, followed in the data sheet by a generic funny sentence concerning ions, static and deep infrared.

    As I appreciate high-end sound, I must accept I am a "believer" and use "tweaks" - based on empirical information and my listening, nothing else. Please see my recent modest DIY efforts in building power simple distributors, just to have a reference to compare with the audiophile grade ones I have now in my system. But I also accept that science can do little to explain my preferences. Surely YMMV, this is just my view. I do not want to fuel any of the sides, believers or non-believers, but IMHO all questions should be raised.
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  9. #49
    It took a bit of work but I use Furutech R- IEC in my Acoustat servo amps,along with Furutech R- RCA.HugeImprovement? No.
    Better than before? Yes.

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