Aries Cerat Kassandra II Ref DAC: Wow!

kma

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2015
14
5
133
Hi Astrostar,

I think the bottom line on upsampling or not is really depending upon if the outcome works in one's system or to one's ears. Like I said, my Aqua DAC is also filterless (analog and digital), yet with upsampling (with precise control through HQplayer of noise shapers, etc), I prefer the sound to NOS through this DAC. The soundstage is bigger, with a little less image specificity as a tradeoff.

From my very limited experience with AN gear in general (listening at show demos), I would very much agree with your assessment of the DAC 5. Of course, you owned the beast for a while. I think my ears would prefer something a little faster and more modern, but still coming across as analog. The Kassandra would no doubt be a top choice. I can kind of imagine how it sounds based upon reading feedback and reviewing the design approach to this DAC. Here's something stupid. I had no idea the DAC was $18k. Just by looking at it, I would have assumed it costs a lot more. And by reading user feedback, I felt it cost even more too. But, I guess this is the "entry" level design.. yeah, right. Compared to a DAC 5, it seems quite the bargain. But, still out of my range currently. Seeing how few of these probably get sold, and assuming there will likely be low owner turn over, maybe I'll never see one in the used market either.

On my DIY side, I'll probably stick with the triple C-core that comes with the kit. Its probably the last piece that I'd look into "updating", but thanks for the tips nonetheless. Brian Sowter has offered me a return period if I don't like his latest I-V transformer. I have high hopes for it. I'd like to hear it compared to a Lundahl though. If money were free, sure, I'd sample them all. But since this project is not made from indefinite money, I'll have to pick and choose where to explore.

I totally agree with your assessment on space in the box. This is my single biggest impediment. My early estimation was that space would be an issue. I do have ways to most likely get a lot of things into the 1 box, including an extra toroid to source the extra digital circuits, and using other techniques like stacking PCBs. But I know I will come up just short of space, if I really want to do it right. So, I'll continue to think this through and not do anything until the right plan materializes. A bigger box is an option, or a 2-box solution.

The fun is in the building and tinkering. Being an EE, I've always wanted to mess with audio circuits at a more hands on level. I've done a lot of audio level testing in my field, and plenty of circuit and PCB design work as well. So, the fun in this is putting all the pieces together to instrument a working component. I'm not old enough to have been taught vacuum tube design in school, but solid state design and circuit concepts are almost identical. Still, I have much to learn and play with in the tube world. So, its not really about money or exceeding budget. I have a decent set of lab equipment at home too. I just want to doodle :)

As far as the DAC 5 losing some speed, I have to assume this is due to the digital board and also the power supply design (for digital and analog circuits). Since I've already got plans to address the digital side, I've considered updating the analog power supply as well. My guess is a tube rectified and regulated supply is not going to be as dynamic as a solid state one. Maybe more euphonic, but less "modern" sounding. In my bid to modernize the kit, I will look into a solid state based B+ source. I don't think I'll build it myself, since high voltage power supply design is not something I've done before (plenty of low voltage though). I see Paul Hynes has a nice offering, and I'm consulting him about it. Anyways, more ideas I'm kicking around in my head!

I live in the Austin, TX area. My guess is you are not close, otherwise, sure, I'd be happy to take up your offer. I also know the Kassandra dealer is pretty much in my back yard too, so I'm sure I could go listen there. Funds may be more permitting to actually buy something of this scale later next year. Until then, I think it would be smart not to go listen :) I suffer the audio itch just like the rest of us haha
 

Believe High Fidelity

[Industry Expert]
Nov 19, 2015
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Hutto TX
ibelieveinhifi.com
KMA

When things settle down I can bring a Kassandra Reference by for you to demo for inspiration :)
 

kma

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2015
14
5
133
KMA

When things settle down I can bring a Kassandra Reference by for you to demo for inspiration :)

Thanks for the offer, Believe High Fi.. I told Astrostar I'd rather not torture myself at this point since I'd go into debt to afford a Kassandra haha. But, if I ever get something going, it would be nice to see where I stand. I can always drop by your place for a listen too.
 

Legolas

VIP/Donor
Dec 27, 2015
1,042
387
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France
Cover-photo.jpg

I ordered the Aries Cerat Genus some time back. Right now my system sounds superb with the Kassandra feeding my SS power amplifier.. But I know the effect a good SET can bring to the table, especially one with 25 Watts of class A tube power. Interesting times ahead. I'll post a review on WBF on how it sounds.
 

nonesup

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Feb 15, 2017
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Hi, I know the dimensions of Kassandra Ref ll because they are published on the website of Aries Cerat. But someone could tell me the dimensions of width and depth measured on the feet where the Kassandra rests. It's so big that I do not know if it would fit on a shelf of my Artesania Audio
 

Aries Cerat

Industry Expert
May 30, 2015
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601
333
Hi, I know the dimensions of Kassandra Ref ll because they are published on the website of Aries Cerat. But someone could tell me the dimensions of width and depth measured on the feet where the Kassandra rests. It's so big that I do not know if it would fit on a shelf of my Artesania Audio
Hello there

I could give you the dimensions but ...
Since all Kassandra units are built to order,we could make a unit with custom feet distance to fit your shelf.
Best
Stavros
 

Legolas

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Hi, I know the dimensions of Kassandra Ref ll because they are published on the website of Aries Cerat. But someone could tell me the dimensions of width and depth measured on the feet where the Kassandra rests. It's so big that I do not know if it would fit on a shelf of my Artesania Audio

At CES they adjusted the supports to suit the depth.

Is your rack height adjustable? Or can you sit the DAC on the top shelf instead?

rsz_img_1953.jpg
29351-66cd3136dd07c9f736b9f3f865540281.jpg

You know the DAC is big and heavy, you have seen it. I was worried, and I have mine on my Granite / stainless steel desk. But it is fine, I got used to it. Friends come to my house and think it is a power amplifier.

If I put my previous DAC back in it would look like a toy. And sound poor in comparison.... I admire Stavros for having the guts to build gear this big and this heavy. It can cause problems finding room for it, especially the power amps.
 

nonesup

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872F9F91-90D4-4581-ADB1-55F8075A2FD7.jpeg
 

nonesup

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Feb 15, 2017
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Upper shelf, replacing Lumin
 

Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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Nice

Nice rack.

On my setup, I designed my hifi desk myself, and had the stainless steel frame made down the boat yard by some guys I know in Almerimar. For the Genus I have planned a 2cm x 2 slab of black granite and will sandwich them together with polymer and some other material where it contacts the floor.
 

Legolas

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nonesup

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Well, that photo is of the Prestige model. My table is an old model of the year 2,000. The shelves are 50 cm wide by 40 cm deep.
3395C235-8002-46A2-A1D5-01090BA0D113.jpeg
 

Legolas

VIP/Donor
Dec 27, 2015
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artesania-rack.gif
I have drawn your rack based on your shelf supplied dimension and the Artesania website data. I believe the Kassandra will fit on your top rack. The depth of your shelf is 4 cm too small so Stavros can fit the feet 5 cm further in. I think the width is fine.
 

nonesup

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The Kassandra seems to be a DAC without oversampling (NOS DAC), but does it have a Digital or Analog filter, to eliminate the Aliasing?
 

admin1959

THE FIXER (I build websites)
Mar 27, 2010
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The Kassandra seems to be a DAC without oversampling (NOS DAC), but does it have a Digital or Analog filter, to eliminate the Aliasing?

As I understand it it has NO filter. I would say that is a good thing. My previous Audio Note DACs also had no filter in the digital domain, they sounded much better without it. It is a common argument in the DS technology that there must be one, but many R-2R DACs have proved otherwise. There may be some tuning / filtering in the analogue domain, I would need to check with Stavros.

I built an Audio Note DAC back in 2015, and heavily modified it with trick parts up to AN 4.1 spec. I tried at length that DAC which had an AD1865 NK chip in NOS mode, both with and without a filter. It sound much more natural without the filter.

There are other R-2R DACs that also avoid a filter including Zanden and Ypsilon DACs.

Hope this helps.
 

opus112

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
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Digital filters don't eliminate aliasing (actually the technical term in relation to DACs is 'imaging', 'aliasing' applies to ADCs) rather they make it easier for an analog filter to remove by opening up space between the top of the wanted frequencies (audio) and the lowest of the unwanted ones (images).

In my experience of designing NOS DACs, an analog filter improves the SQ. I've designed various kinds of filters, both active and passive and when correctly implemented (not always trivial) they improve both the focus and the HF delicacy. Zanden's DAC, whilst avoiding a digital filter does employ a fairly complex analog passive one.
 
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nonesup

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Well it would be very interesting if Stavros told us if he has implemented an analog filter or he has not. Along with the reasons that led him to make his decision. It is always a luxury to be able to read in the forums the designers explaining their products.
 

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