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Thread: Another Apogee thread? You bet!

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    Another Apogee thread? You bet!

    Just a few words to describe a bit of an epiphany I had at the wkend
    Ked has been spreading the restored Graz Apogees line for a long time now, and keeping word of them as a going concern, as a Bucket List component, to be heard at least once before you die, even if you don't end up owning a pair
    I had missed the opportunity to hear the "Interstellar" Duetta Signatures of Justin/User211 last year, but finally got the chance on Saturday after picking up my recently serviced NATs Utopia tubed preamp
    If I'm honest I went to Justin w as low expectation bias as you could imagine
    I'd recently heard frustratingly underperforming Apogee Divas, and Analysis Omegas ribbons don't hit the spot for me
    Within moments of Justin firing up a bass torture electronic dance melange, I was hooked
    There was NO way any non cone spkr should be producing this level of bass, both depth and extension, weight w amazing agility
    Now I'm finally getting the concept of planar dipole bass, hefty but nimble
    As we progressed onto Genesis, Nirvana, Miles Davis and Bob Marley, the breadth of these v special spkrs really became apparent
    Superb imaging, depth and width, transparency way beyond most transducers, a really intoxicating and energetic treble, and fascinatingly a unique holistic/of a piece continuousness w the bass having no seperate quality from the mids and treble, and all frequencies coming from the same location
    So what I got was a sound that hybridised the three fave sounds I have atm
    The immediacy of Blue58's AG Duos horns/45 tubes amps, the power and bass impact of Audiophile Bill's Focal Utopia box spkrs/Analog Domain SS amp, and the involvement of my Zus/NATs 211 SETs
    And all of this pwrd by 80W/ch 211s SETs, pretty much what my NATs provide
    Any weaknesses?
    None that I could hear
    It's been a long long time since I've been so floored by a component
    And it's got me very seriously thinking about a radical upgrade that at one fell swoop will transform my sound from excellent to stellar w'out having to spend the kind of budget that would break the bank
    Kudos to Ked for the repetitive prompts, and to Justin the owner for offering the invite

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofmusic View Post
    Just a few words to describe a bit of an epiphany I had at the wkend
    Ked has been spreading the restored Graz Apogees line for a long time now, and keeping word of them as a going concern, as a Bucket List component, to be heard at least once before you die, even if you don't end up owning a pair
    I had missed the opportunity to hear the "Interstellar" Duetta Signatures of Justin/User211 last year, but finally got the chance on Saturday after picking up my recently serviced NATs Utopia tubed preamp
    If I'm honest I went to Justin w as low expectation bias as you could imagine
    I'd recently heard frustratingly underperforming Apogee Divas, and Analysis Omegas ribbons don't hit the spot for me
    Within moments of Justin firing up a bass torture electronic dance melange, I was hooked
    There was NO way any non cone spkr should be producing this level of bass, both depth and extension, weight w amazing agility
    Now I'm finally getting the concept of planar dipole bass, hefty but nimble
    As we progressed onto Genesis, Nirvana, Miles Davis and Bob Marley, the breadth of these v special spkrs really became apparent
    Superb imaging, depth and width, transparency way beyond most transducers, a really intoxicating and energetic treble, and fascinatingly a unique holistic/of a piece continuousness w the bass having no seperate quality from the mids and treble, and all frequencies coming from the same location
    So what I got was a sound that hybridised the three fave sounds I have atm
    The immediacy of Blue58's AG Duos horns/45 tubes amps, the power and bass impact of Audiophile Bill's Focal Utopia box spkrs/Analog Domain SS amp, and the involvement of my Zus/NATs 211 SETs
    And all of this pwrd by 80W/ch 211s SETs, pretty much what my NATs provide
    Any weaknesses?
    None that I could hear
    It's been a long long time since I've been so floored by a component
    And it's got me very seriously thinking about a radical upgrade that at one fell swoop will transform my sound from excellent to stellar w'out having to spend the kind of budget that would break the bank
    Kudos to Ked for the repetitive prompts, and to Justin the owner for offering the invite
    Just for clarification: you heard restored Duetta Signatures? With what electronics? I have always liked DSs driven by a good hybrid amp. I had partially restored Caliper Signatures with Sphinx PJ 14mkiii in a smallish room and it was very good...Acoustat Spectra 2200 was better though in all ways you described but especially low level information retrieval.

    It took rather special sounding horns to get me to move away from planars so I understand your excitement... similar to how I felt first time I heard a pair of Audiostatics...my jaw dropped and started a 10+ year love affair with planars (electrostats and magnetostats).

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    After listening to panels over a period of time, you'll also start "hearing the box" of box speakers when you shift over to systems with them. You will re-adjust to box speakers again, but you will wonder why you never noticed that before.
    SME 30/2 Turntable, Da Vinci Grandezza Tonearm, Benz MC-3 Cartridge, Allnic HT 3000 head amp, Allnic H-3000 Phono, Allnic L 5000 preamp, Accuphase F 25, Analysis Audio Epsilon Speaker/foil tweeters in four way active crossover Amplification: Sony TAN 8550 VFET amp (26 DHT preamp driver)350-7000hz, Yamaha B-2 VFET amplifier (26 DHT preamp driver)80-350hz , 45 SET tube amp 7000Hz to infinity Hz, Yamaha RX Z9 plus Yamaha Aventage CX-A5000 preamp processor 9.4 surround sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by morricab View Post
    Just for clarification: you heard restored Duetta Signatures? With what electronics? I have always liked DSs driven by a good hybrid amp. I had partially restored Caliper Signatures with Sphinx PJ 14mkiii in a smallish room and it was very good...Acoustat Spectra 2200 was better though in all ways you described but especially low level information retrieval.

    It took rather special sounding horns to get me to move away from planars so I understand your excitement... similar to how I felt first time I heard a pair of Audiostatics...my jaw dropped and started a 10+ year love affair with planars (electrostats and magnetostats).
    What, you bought trios now?
    Audition recordings: Zero Distortion Link; Reference Components: Zero Distortion Link; Own: Lampi GG One-day-to-get: Apogee Scintilla, or a horn (with Tenor 75 OTL ), Preamp to be fit in to suit the gain and drive the power amp. Analog: TBD

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    Marc, time to move in together, you think?
    Audition recordings: Zero Distortion Link; Reference Components: Zero Distortion Link; Own: Lampi GG One-day-to-get: Apogee Scintilla, or a horn (with Tenor 75 OTL ), Preamp to be fit in to suit the gain and drive the power amp. Analog: TBD

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo75 View Post
    Marc, time to move in together, you think?
    Waldorf and Statler

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjfrbw View Post
    After listening to panels over a period of time, you'll also start "hearing the box" of box speakers when you shift over to systems with them. You will re-adjust to box speakers again, but you will wonder why you never noticed that before.
    When I owned Martin Logan Summits, I could not appreciate any box. But a few months after I sold them and unlearned that sound, I started appreciating boxes, especially large ones like Alexandria. I then tried seriously considering Vivids and also bought Verity to see if I could adjust. Everytime I felt aspects of hifi sound good but lack naturalnear that I find in horns or planars. I did like a Rockport MTM design, the grand mira II, which is the only MTM in Rockport like apart from Arrakis (and I don't like other Rockports). In fact I heard it in the same room as analysis audio omega and preferred the MTM. Then I liked YG which is not exactly a box. These were better than normal planars. But then a well restored apogee to me just beat the hell out of everything, and only Yamamura could top Apogees, along with a couple of bespoke big horns, and I would say a trio with bass horns would top the smaller Apogees but not the larger ones.

    Yes the one that Marc heard was a restored one, spec's by Justin (user211) and built by the UK restorer jon, reality audio. Using 211 amps, and the first Lampi.big 7 built with a normal laptop using jriver, basic cabling, and in a 18 x 11 room. Basic valves too
    Audition recordings: Zero Distortion Link; Reference Components: Zero Distortion Link; Own: Lampi GG One-day-to-get: Apogee Scintilla, or a horn (with Tenor 75 OTL ), Preamp to be fit in to suit the gain and drive the power amp. Analog: TBD

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    Re Ked's suggestion to move in together
    What I love about living in the middle of nowhere is there are SO many places to hide a dead body...

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofmusic View Post
    Re Ked's suggestion to move in together
    What I love about living in the middle of nowhere is there are SO many places to hide a dead body...
    Lol
    Audition recordings: Zero Distortion Link; Reference Components: Zero Distortion Link; Own: Lampi GG One-day-to-get: Apogee Scintilla, or a horn (with Tenor 75 OTL ), Preamp to be fit in to suit the gain and drive the power amp. Analog: TBD

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    You are right about the whole and linear sound, remember the discussion on seamless? I have never found a more seamless, whole sound, where it sounds so crossoverless (because it’s all ribbon).

    FYI, Justin did not play you what would have been the single most impressive audition track for Apogees – a 180 bps mp3 drum track. When you hear how they play the drums across the space, how dynamically, you will find it tough to listen to that track on a cone.

    From Ron’s vist to Henk thread

    "Postscript: I visited Steve today to catch up with I'm before I go back to London. I brought with me a CD of the Genesis album with the “Drum Duet” track -- with Phil Collins playing the drum kit on the left side of the stage and his colleague playing a drum kit on the right side of the stage. (Henk very kindly gave me his CD of that album.)

    When the track was finished at Henk’s place my wife and I turned to each other and each of us basically said “Oh my God, that was amazing!” So I was really curious to hear this drum track on Steve’s very full-range and bass capable system. (Steve supplements his big Wilsons with JL Audio Fathoms.)

    On Steve’s system the drum track today was very good but it was not involving and mesmerizing like it was on Henk’s system. Listening to the drums on the Grands seemed to my wife and me like an experience.

    This is absolutely no criticism of Steve’s system. As I have written many times I love the sound from Steve’s system. I am very confident what I heard from this track on the Grands versus on conventional cones means that Kedar was correct about the amazing bass reproduction on the Grands: the woofer panel on the Grands -- which covers about 70 Hz to about 250 Hz -- is the best reproducer of that frequency range I have ever heard in my life. I do not think any dynamic driver speaker -- not Wilsons, not Genesis woofer towers, not Pendragon woofer towers, not any set of cones -- is going to reproduce 70 Hz or so to 250 Hz or so with the articulation and realism and power of those big, trapezoidal woofer panels on the Grands.

    Before Steve played the drum track on CD we listened on LP to a new jazz album he recently received. I think the music on this jazz album frequently activated the Fathoms. When we played the drum track I don't think the Fathoms were activated often, if at all.

    I think that Henk knew exactly what he was doing when he demonstrated the Grands with “Drum Duet.” He wanted to show what the Grands’ woofer panels could do above the two 12 inch cones in the Grands."

    The above is also true for duettas as I tried that on Duettas, and Justin's drum track will show the same thing.
    Audition recordings: Zero Distortion Link; Reference Components: Zero Distortion Link; Own: Lampi GG One-day-to-get: Apogee Scintilla, or a horn (with Tenor 75 OTL ), Preamp to be fit in to suit the gain and drive the power amp. Analog: TBD

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