ZenWave Audio D4 Interconnect

DaveC

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Personally, I would treat such numbers as being useful only in relative terms. They help to describe the magnitude of tonal shift (among other things) between various cables. So, his 2% might be your 5% in absolute terms, however you'll both probably agree that the A/B difference between the "2%" cable and the "20%" cable is sufficiently large in a highly resolving system. I'd personally put the D5 much closer to the 20% than the 2% in relative terms after my brief listen to both, FWIW. That being said, I've never heard the cable that Dave describes as having "20% warmth".


One thing with the D5 is the character of the warmth is different vs copper so it's hard to compare... I would say the overall warmth is similar vs my copper cables but resolution/clarity is much better.
 

Tango

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It's just my (questionable) attempt to communicate how the cables sound, no precision involved, it's not measured.

As for determining neutral, #1 is resolution, #2 is timbre and tone. #1 is fairly objective although I don't know how to measure it. #2 is subjective and very system-dependent. There is also the lack of either pleasant or unpleasant coloration, much of this is easy to identify with practice as it falls into certain categories, i.e. copper sounds a certain way, stranded vs solid-core wire sounds a certain way, etc...

#2 is the issue... the trick is to maximize #1 while achieving #2, then you have the right balance. For some, the D5 is going to be closer to the right balance as it adds more warmth without sacrificing too much resolution. It might actually make sense to make a D4.5 that's halfway in between, but that might be splitting hairs and just causing confusion with too much choice. And as many have found, there's isn't much interest in a zero-warmth cable... most are willing to sacrifice some resolution for some warmth.

I would also say that perception of tone has an effect on resolution, so a warm cable in a warm system might sound bloated and slow while in a neutral system might sound really nice... this explains differences in opinion and experience with different components to some degree.

You always respond with wisdom. Also like your honesty and approach to business.

Wish you the very best,
Tang
 

Al M.

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You always respond with wisdom. Also like your honesty and approach to business.

Wish you the very best,
Tang

Well said.
 

DaveC

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You always respond with wisdom. Also like your honesty and approach to business.

Wish you the very best,
Tang

Thanks, I appreciate it! :)
 

jsn

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Jan 8, 2014
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Hi Dave,
I just wonder if you tried to use the D4 conductor to make power cable . How does it sound ?
Please share
Thank you.
Jsn
 

DaveC

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Hi Dave,
I just wonder if you tried to use the D4 conductor to make power cable . How does it sound ?
Please share
Thank you.
Jsn

I have not... it would be a very expensive power cable, around $1200/ft for an 11g cable. However, this and a version of my ICs and SCs using the silver/gold wire with cotton and inert gas dielectric are a possibility for a cost-no-object line of cables. I have made a prototype D4 with inert gas dielectric.

Currently my cables approach or even exceed the performance of some cost-no-object cables but the goal of ZenWave is to offer the best possible value. I don't go quite as far down the road of diminishing returns vs cost-no-object products but one day I may do so. :)
 

heebrog

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May 12, 2018
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One thing with the D5 is the character of the warmth is different vs copper so it's hard to compare... I would say the overall warmth is similar vs my copper cables but resolution/clarity is much better.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for you contribution and industry insight on WBF.

Would the D4/D5 IC be overkill for a subwoofer setup if the crossover is in the 100Hz range?
Does the characteristics of resolution/clarity extend into the bass or would a UPOCC Cu cable be adequate?
Is that a specific test you have performed.
Unfortunately I am not in the US so a loan cable would be difficult to to test in my own setup.

G
 

DaveC

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Hi Dave,

Thanks for you contribution and industry insight on WBF.

Would the D4/D5 IC be overkill for a subwoofer setup if the crossover is in the 100Hz range?
Does the characteristics of resolution/clarity extend into the bass or would a UPOCC Cu cable be adequate?
Is that a specific test you have performed.
Unfortunately I am not in the US so a loan cable would be difficult to to test in my own setup.

G


I'd say no for the D5, maybe for the D4... bass will be cleaner vs a copper IC but how much this will matter to you is very hard to judge. I'd probably recommend my D1 to be honest, it's a very good UPOCC copper cable for a very good price.
 

knghifi

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Dec 6, 2014
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Dave shipped me bunch of cables to demo and ended up buying a D4 XLR. Excellent cable!
 

GSOphile

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Sep 3, 2017
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One thing with the D5 is the character of the warmth is different vs copper so it's hard to compare... I would say the overall warmth is similar vs my copper cables but resolution/clarity is much better.

Dave,
The D5 sounds interesting. Why aren't these offered with XLRs?

As an aside, I very much enjoy your posts - very thoughtful, perceptive.... and educational. Thank you.
 

DaveC

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Dave,
The D5 sounds interesting. Why aren't these offered with XLRs?

As an aside, I very much enjoy your posts - very thoughtful, perceptive.... and educational. Thank you.

Thanks!

XLRs are different in that they have 2 signal runs with a net zero voltage between them, so the pin1/ground connection doesn't serve as both the signal and ground as it does with an RCA cable. However, the pin1 connection is certainly audible. Also with RCA cables you want the ground/return connection to have less resistance (this reduces noise voltages created by differences in potential between component grounds) while the signal leg doesn't matter so much. With an XLR cable you need to have both signal legs exactly the same. So while they are both interconnect cables they are really quite different as well.

The D4 XLR already uses the OCC silver/gold wire for both signal legs and UPOCC silver for pin1, so the D4 XLR is a little closer to the D5 already, and using silver/gold for pin1 isn't going to make as much difference vs the RCA cable.

It's a good question but the answer isn't simple. :) It's tempting to just call the current D4 XLR the D5 but it might be a little misleading as the D5 RCA is going to be a bit warmer vs the current D4 XLR.
 
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Speedskater

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..................................
XLRs are different in that they have 2 signal runs with a net zero voltage between them, so the pin1/ground connection doesn't serve as both the signal and ground as it does with an RCA cable. However, the pin1 connection is certainly audible. Also with RCA cables you want the ground/return connection to have less resistance (this reduces noise voltages created by differences in potential between component grounds) while the signal leg doesn't matter so much. With an XLR cable you need to have both signal legs exactly the same. So while they are both interconnect cables they are really quite different as well.
.................................................
A very correct explanation.

Much of the 'pin 1 problem' is inside poorly designed hi-fi components.
 

GSOphile

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Thanks!

XLRs are different in that they have 2 signal runs with a net zero voltage between them, so the pin1/ground connection doesn't serve as both the signal and ground as it does with an RCA cable. However, the pin1 connection is certainly audible. Also with RCA cables you want the ground/return connection to have less resistance (this reduces noise voltages created by differences in potential between component grounds) while the signal leg doesn't matter so much. With an XLR cable you need to have both signal legs exactly the same. So while they are both interconnect cables they are really quite different as well.

The D4 XLR already uses the OCC silver/gold wire for both signal legs and UPOCC silver for pin1, so the D4 XLR is a little closer to the D5 already, and using silver/gold for pin1 isn't going to make as much difference vs the RCA cable.

It's a good question but the answer isn't simple. :) It's tempting to just call the current D4 XLR the D5 but it might be a little misleading as the D5 RCA is going to be a bit warmer vs the current D4 XLR.

Dave,
Thanks for the insight. The genesis for my question is your last sentence - the slight additional warmth of the D5 over the D4.
 

DaveC

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Dave,
Thanks for the insight. The genesis for my question is your last sentence - the slight additional warmth of the D5 over the D4.

The perception of correct tone/timbre varies so I believe a demo is the best way to go. Let me know if you're interested! :)
 

bazelio

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Sep 26, 2016
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Dave,
Thanks for the insight. The genesis for my question is your last sentence - the slight additional warmth of the D5 over the D4.

As Dave says, demo both. When I demoed both the D4 and D5, I found the overall difference between them to be not slight. I think most people will have a clear preference for one or the other.
 

GSOphile

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My original inquiry was about the the possibility of the D5 being offered with XLRs (since I have a clear preference for these). So a D3/D3.5 to D4 XLR comparison would probably make more sense in my case.
 

DaveC

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My original inquiry was about the the possibility of the D5 being offered with XLRs (since I have a clear preference for these). So a D3/D3.5 to D4 XLR comparison would probably make more sense in my case.

Sure, you're welcome to try out both. :)
 

Joel

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Sep 13, 2013
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Hi all,

Just have reviewed the D4 balanced interconnects and the D4 spdif.
I have to say that, at this price point, Dave's cables are outstanding bargains.
No longer being a spdif guy, I will send back the digital cable but the XLR cable will undoubtedly remain in my system.
Indeed they bring further resolution and accuracy on tones without adding something of their own, quite unusual behavior for high end cables which most of the time bring their own fingerprint into the system, and further boredom on the long run.
Highly recommended !

You can read the review at :

http://www.audiophile-magazine.com/bancs-d-essais/zenwave-audio-d4/

Best,

Joël
 
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DaveC

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Hi all,

Just have reviewed the D4 balanced interconnects and the D4 spdif.
I have to say that, at this price point, Dave's cables are outstanding bargains.
No longer being a spdif guy, I will send back the digital cable but the XLR cable will undoubtedly remain in my system.
Indeed they bring further resolution and accuracy on tones without adding something of their own, quite unusual behavior for high end cables which most of the time bring their own fingerprint into the system, and further boredom on the long run.
Highly recommended !

You can read the review at :

http://www.audiophile-magazine.com/bancs-d-essais/zenwave-audio-d4/

Best,

Joël


Thanks very much Joël!

No surprise, but I like the review a lot. :) I think you get a good feel for what the cables will do and what my design priorities and intentions are with the D4 cables.

I also want to say that the XLR cables have changed a tiny bit since this thread started, the D4 XLR now has a little less gold and there is now a D5 XLR that has a little more gold. This aligns the cables a little closer with the RCA versions, previously the D4 XLR was somewhat in between the D4 and D5 RCA cables, now the D4 and D5 XLR cables are very close in tone to their RCA versions.

In addition, the top end silver/gold speaker cable, the SMSG, will be renamed the S5 and an S4 will be added with a little less gold. Again, the idea is to align the speaker cables with the interconnect cables in terms of tone.

Also, in the near future I will add UPOCC silver ribbon signal cables, which offer another choice and will be even more affordable as they are less complex and are pure silver, so no gold at all. This will enable ZenWave to offer 3 top of the line cable choices depending on the amount of warmth that is most ideal for your system:

-Silver ribbon cables with no gold.
-D4 cables with gold added as an alloying element.
-D5 cables with more gold vs D4.

The first silver ribbon cable is actually a power cable and has just been released, more info in the next post...
 

DaveC

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