Aqua Formula - settings new levels of R2R sonics and price performance

EuroDriver

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It was only a 90 minute audition of the Sound Galleries Music Server converting everything to DXD 24/352. Be it red book, high res, or DSD 64, the results were jaw droppingly good. The Aqua Formula was XLR connected to a Bespoke TVC driving Pass Labs Class A amps and Zu speakers

So last week we bit the bullet and ordered two of these Formula DAC's and plan on demonstrating them with the Sound Galleries Music Server in the US and in Europe.

The Aqua Formula earned a Blue Moon award from 6 moons in October. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/aqua2/1.html

So as WBF members have chance to listen to this exciting newcomer, please share your observations and comments.

When we get our units and have given them time to run in, I will post more detailed comments
 
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Elberoth

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Is it better than the T+A DSD8 DAC ?
 

EuroDriver

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Is it better than the T+A DSD8 DAC ?

After the wonderful 90 minutes playing to the Aqua Formula, we hooked up a well broken in T+A DAC 8 DSD. The SQ of the DAC8 DSD with the volume control turned off and connected with XLR to the Bespoke TVC, is very good and competitive with a lot of DAC's in the 10 to 15 k class, but then the Bespoke has a sticker price of 9-10 k.
http://www.thebespokeaudiocompany.com/reviews

After 10 minutes of listening to the T+A, I requested to go back to the Aqua Formula.

We all listen differently and may be there were IMO 2 traits out of 8 where the T+ A did better than the Aqua. The Aqua is about 3 times the price of the T+ A, but IMHO, the Aqua is very good value for money and is definitely playing in the top drawer of DAC's at any price.

Geoffrey, Emile and I need more time with the Aqua Formula to gain a deeper insight to its sonic capabilities and to explore the HQ Player setting that suit the Formula in different systems. Being a PCM DAC, the dither / noise shape settings have quite a noticeable sonic effect. Also the Closed Form digital filter might work very nicely in some systems.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Hi Ed, I currently run the top of the range Zu spkrs, Def 4's
It's good to know SGM/Formula sounds stellar thru them
 

Lee

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Ron Resnick

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The author of that review says some nice things about the PS Audio DAC -- especially, as he suggests, for analog people exploring digital for the first time.
 

spiritofmusic

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Edward, can you specify which 2 aspects the Dac8 beat the Formula on?
I've now heard the Dac8 at 512 thru Barry's SGM, excelling at timing, dynamics, low noise floor
Just an uber verve machine
I've also heard the GG at 256 thru Bill's demo SGM, excelling at tonal density and heft
Fantastic for analog like immersion
We have reports that Nagra HD at 128 is king at flow and fluidity
And now Mike's reports that Formula at pcm and dxd excels at neutrality, decay and micro dynamics
Only caveat is that the Dac8 at 512 may be somewhat hampered by the noisy internal volume attenuator that ideally should be bypassed (Barry doesn't run a seperate preamp)
We could do w knowing where these stellar units all chart on the audio subjective spectrum
For me, if Formula truly can meld Dac8 verve w GG tonal heft, it'll be the dac I choose if I ever get the SGM
If it's more an uber neutral performer, more sparse and "Hifi-ish", it may not speak to me
You've heard them all Edward, please let's have your end of term report
 

EuroDriver

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Edward, can you specify which 2 aspects the Dac8 beat the Formula on?
I've now heard the Dac8 at 512 thru Barry's SGM, excelling at timing, dynamics, low noise floor
Just an uber verve machine
I've also heard the GG at 256 thru Bill's demo SGM, excelling at tonal density and heft
Fantastic for analog like immersion
We have reports that Nagra HD at 128 is king at flow and fluidity
And now Mike's reports that Formula at pcm and dxd excels at neutrality, decay and micro dynamics
Only caveat is that the Dac8 at 512 may be somewhat hampered by the noisy internal volume attenuator that ideally should be bypassed (Barry doesn't run a seperate preamp)
We could do w knowing where these stellar units all chart on the audio subjective spectrum
For me, if Formula truly can meld Dac8 verve w GG tonal heft, it'll be the dac I choose if I ever get the SGM
If it's more an uber neutral performer, more sparse and "Hifi-ish", it may not speak to me
You've heard them all Edward, please let's have your end of term report

Marc,

I think my answer is "I don't think I am qualified to give you a good answer"

I have only heard the a DAC 8 in the same system as the Formula for 10 minutes. DSD 512 has a swing and energy that is difficult for a PCM DAC to bring to a similar level. Whether or not the Formula is as good or better in this department than the DAC 8 is hard to say and also somewhat system dependent.

Anyway, when your new house is done, we will happily bring a SGM together with a DAC 8 and a Formula for you to try out for a whole day.
 

spiritofmusic

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That's a v kind offer Edward
I may take you up on it, funds permitting
Me and Ra will put you up overnt in the Norfolk countryside, if you like big skies, sunsets and bird life, you'll LOVE it here
The house (an 1861 Victorian chapel) is complete, and newly-constructed listening room a total joy for neutral, quiet acoustic, and pure unadulterated power
My system is already a quantum leap better sounding than in London, and tbh the move to streaming I'm planning to be my last major expenditure on audio, the current sound is so good I'm finally done upgrading save for some ongoing tweaks
As someone wedded to lps, and one of the few happy to carry on using a cdp, being a bit averse to computer audio, my ongoing experience of hearing the SGM at Barry's w his Dac8 has been so comprehensively positive, that I'm growing accustomed to embracing the concept
 

tsaett

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IMG_3579.JPG

Temporarily I have both DACs in my system for comparison.
It is too early to give you a detailed answer since the Formula was just introduced to the system today. First impression is indeed very promising.

Will let you know once I got the chance to do a real A-B.

Christoph
 

Mike Lavigne

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View attachment 30920

Temporarily I have both DACs in my system for comparison.
It is too early to give you a detailed answer since the Formula was just introduced to the system today. First impression is indeed very promising.

Will let you know once I got the chance to do a real A-B.

Christoph

Christoph,

I will be watching for your impressions.

in my system the Formula did respond to improved footers and de-coupling very well.......both small BDR (Black Diamond Racing) cones eliminating the stock footers, and then placing it on top of my Herzan active shelf. both of those changes were very positive. and........in my system the Formula much preferred XLR's to RCA's. this made a profound difference.

cheers,

Mike
 

spiritofmusic

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Christolph, and Mike, my big q is where Formula-SGM fits on the cerebral/analysis/fast v lush/dense/languid spectrum
I've heard Dac8 at 512 and GG at 256 on SGM, and the T&A was definitely the former, with the Lampi the latter
My Eera Tentation cdp combines lush and fast perfectly, and I'm v curious if the Formula pulls off a rare balance of fast, revealing AND full and tone dense
Can one have an aural microscope AND dance machine w the Formula?
 

Al M.

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Christolph, and Mike, my big q is where Formula-SGM fits on the cerebral/analysis/fast v lush/dense/languid spectrum
I've heard Dac8 at 512 and GG at 256 on SGM, and the T&A was definitely the former, with the Lampi the latter
My Eera Tentation cdp combines lush and fast perfectly, and I'm v curious if the Formula pulls off a rare balance of fast, revealing AND full and tone dense
Can one have an aural microscope AND dance machine w the Formula?

You can have with the new dCS gear. The Vivaldi will be top, but the Rossini will do as well.
 

spiritofmusic

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Never found Dcs to get the lush/fast balance right
But I haven't listened to their top combos for some time
Dcs always appealed to my head, not my heart
Def not appealing to my wallet, at 3-4x the price of Formula-SGM
 

rockitman

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The author of that review says some nice things about the PS Audio DAC -- especially, as he suggests, for analog people exploring digital for the first time.

The direct stream DAC sounds very good. Incredible given it's price point. It's my choice for when I need to listen to digital.
 

Al M.

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Never found Dcs to get the lush/fast balance right
But I haven't listened to their top combos for some time

Aah, but according to many, their current top players are a different story from their older ones. Can't comment on those older ones, but the new ones are enormously musical.

Dcs always appealed to my head, not my heart
Def not appealing to my wallet, at 3-4x the price of Formula-SGM

Not so much difference in price between the top Aqua Formula DAC and the dCS Rossini DAC.
 

bonzo75

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Aah, but according to many, their current top players are a different story from their older ones. Can't comment on those older ones, but the new ones are enormously musical.



Not so much difference in price between the top Aqua Formula DAC and the dCS Rossini DAC.

Did a compare of Rossini and EMM labs, the latter won. The dealer likes the latter too, and recommended that only the vivaldi after adding the upsampler would beat it

That was a side demo, since I was really there to compare Reed, Feickert firebird, Thales and Pluto TTs, plus idea and Thales arms
 

Al M.

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Did a compare of Rossini and EMM labs, the latter won. The dealer likes the latter too, and recommended that only the vivaldi after adding the upsampler would beat it

That was a side demo, since I was really there to compare Reed, Feickert firebird, Thales and Pluto TTs, plus idea and Thales arms

"The latter won": the question is under which system circumstances, and by which criteria ;).

I'd have to hear it myself. I have heard comparisons between DACs where I thought about my preference, some probably would like the other DAC better.

In fact, I have had cheaper DACs in my house that sounded "fuller" on many recordings than my current one (some would have loved that) *), but I chose to spend the extra money on mine because I thought it was more accurate to the recordings -- while involving me emotionally even more because it simply let me hear more of the musical expression.

_____________

*) my current DAC is a chameleon: it changes character according to the recording. Full and warm recordings sound just that, thin recordings sound thin. The DAC simply imparts less of an own signature.
 

bonzo75

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"The latter won": the question is under which system circumstances, and by which criteria ;).

I'd have to hear it myself. I have heard comparisons between DACs where I thought about my preference, some probably would like the other DAC better.

In fact, I have had cheaper DACs in my house that sounded "fuller" on many recordings than my current one (some would have loved that) *), but I chose to spend the extra money on mine because I thought it was more accurate to the recordings -- while involving me emotionally even more because it simply let me hear more of the musical expression.

_____________

*) my current DAC is a chameleon: it changes character according to the recording. Full and warm recordings sound just that, thin recordings sound thin. The DAC simply imparts less of an own signature.

Yes, do the compare, and let us know.
 

wisnon

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You do know that the GG can do dsd512 as well. That engine to most people is clearly superior to the R2R dsd256 engine. AlRainbow has never liked upsampling to the GG at any rate except dsd512 which he recently tried for the first time.

See if you can arrange to try GG at 512 and let us know what you think.
 

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