All New Yamaha NS 5000 Speakers..... World-Beaters ?

rustplane

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Feb 26, 2016
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Here are a couple of updates:

1. Interestingly the stands for the NS-5000 are on the Yamaha USA website with a technical description.

2. Found two new reviews:

http://www.soundstageaustralia.com/index.php/reviews/114-yamaha-ns-5000-loudspeakers

http://av2day.com/2018/01/yamaha-ns5000-loudspeakers-part-i/

3. Was reading on another Yamaha website what an achievement Yamaha believes their 3 1/4" midrange DOME is in these speakers (vs. midrange cone). After researching, I found midrange domes are hard to do but when done right can have advantages over cones. Some criticism of the NS-1000's had to do with this implementation so presumably with the zylon material Yamaha has been able to overcome the limitations of this approach. Here are some links:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/...389-dome-mids-vs-cones-meaningful-difference/

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/are-dome-midrange-better-than-cone-designs
 

rustplane

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Feb 26, 2016
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The NS-5000 were at the Montreal Hi-Fi show this March, are now featured on the Yamaha Canada website and are on one Yamaha retailer's website in Canada. So I would expect the USA market is next.
 

Barry2013

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I heard the A3s at a dealer demo with full Vivaldi/D'Agostino/Transparent cables and thought they were no better than alright even allowing for the price so I would agree that it would be better to await the arrival of the NS-500s before deciding
 

yyzSB

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May 14, 2017
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My choice of the A3 is for some diversity in my speaker lineup and accommodating size for my office.. There is a local used KEF Reference 3 for $6500 that I would think I would like better than the A3 (for my office) but I am trying to not buy another KEF. My gut tells me that the Yamaha would be a serious contender to make me switch from the A3.
 

Barry2013

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At the risk of complicating things the Magico A3 is very similar to the T+A Talis S300 which is less expensive than the A3. I have not heard the S300 but I have had reliable reports that it is more than a match for the A3 so could well be a cost effective choice for your office system.
FWIW!
 

yyzSB

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May 14, 2017
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The T+A seems a little more than the A3 on MSRP.

https://www.thecableco.com/talis-s-300-floor-standing-speaker.html

There are actually a lot of speakers in the A3 price range that are very good. I was going to pull the trigger on the A3 because it is one of the few floor standers I like that would work in my small office space. I think I will still have to use the Lyngdorf 3400 room correcting integrated to make it work. This is not my original choice for amplification (Mark Levinson 585) but the room must be tamed first or it would not work.

Not sure if the NS-5000 can be made to work nicely with the Lyngdorf 3400 and the small office. The NS-5000 is classified as a bookshelf (though rather large) so I need to see it and hear in person before I make judgement.
 

Al M.

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I heard the A3s at a dealer demo with full Vivaldi/D'Agostino/Transparent cables and thought they were no better than alright even allowing for the price so I would agree that it would be better to await the arrival of the NS-500s before deciding

Agreed. I heard them too at a dealer -- alright but nothing more. There is also a coloration in the lower midrange and bass that is untypical for Magico and which gets annoying. Now, if you talk about the Q3, that's an entirely different matter. Tremendous speaker! But o.k., also vastly more expensive. Would be a steal though used, if you could get one.
 

Barry2013

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Oct 12, 2013
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The T+A seems a little more than the A3 on MSRP.

https://www.thecableco.com/talis-s-300-floor-standing-speaker.html

There are actually a lot of speakers in the A3 price range that are very good. I was going to pull the trigger on the A3 because it is one of the few floor standers I like that would work in my small office space. I think I will still have to use the Lyngdorf 3400 room correcting integrated to make it work. This is not my original choice for amplification (Mark Levinson 585) but the room must be tamed first or it would not work.

Not sure if the NS-5000 can be made to work nicely with the Lyngdorf 3400 and the small office. The NS-5000 is classified as a bookshelf (though rather large) so I need to see it and hear in person before I make judgement.

There may be different p
The T+A seems a little more than the A3 on MSRP.

https://www.thecableco.com/talis-s-300-floor-standing-speaker.html

There are actually a lot of speakers in the A3 price range that are very good. I was going to pull the trigger on the A3 because it is one of the few floor standers I like that would work in my small office space. I think I will still have to use the Lyngdorf 3400 room correcting integrated to make it work. This is not my original choice for amplification (Mark Levinson 585) but the room must be tamed first or it would not work.

Not sure if the NS-5000 can be made to work nicely with the Lyngdorf 3400 and the small office. The NS-5000 is classified as a bookshelf (though rather large) so I need to see it and hear in person before I make judgement.

There may be different US/European pricing but a pair of new A3s are priced at 11,750 euros and the T+A at 8995 euros on Audiomarkt
 

rustplane

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Feb 26, 2016
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I wrote some of the earlier posts on why the NS-5000 are not available in the USA. I checked every one of Yamaha's markets and even South America and Mexico have the speakers. The USA is the only market in the world where they're not sold. It may have something to do with the new Proposition 65 labeling law in California that requires naming specific chemicals and a more prominent warning label and a chemical or chemicals that Yamaha wants to eliminate that makes the speaker require this cancer warning. Possibly something in the electronic crossover or the piano black finish because Yamaha uses a phenolic lacquer. Yamaha has a pretty vigorous environmental program to eliminate toxics in its products. It's very disappointing, though. I've been meaning to give the Magico A-3's a listen, but after finding and translating every review on the 5000's from literally every publication I could find all over the world, I'm ready to take the plunge without even auditioning them.
 

yyzSB

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May 14, 2017
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I am actively researching and demoing components for my office system. The room is small but I am trying to make it play bigger using room treatments and DSP. I am looking at a floor stander now and not a stand mount) because I think I may have made the room sound "bigger". I have now opened up my speaker search to speakers with more bass output. I am likely going to buy a preamp | DAC | DSP all rolled into one unit. I am considering the Lyngdorf 3400 integrated, Linn SELEKT DSM, and Anthem STR preamp. I will buy a separate amp to drive the speakers. The reason for a separate amp is due to a demo with the Lyngdorf 2170 and the Paradigm 5F. It sounded way better with a Simaudio 860A amp verses the Class D amp built into the Lyngdorf.

I am now getting close to selecting a speaker for my office. I have demoed and liked the Magico A3 a lot however I am eliminating it from consideration after I heard the Paradigm Persona 5F last week. I would need the 3F for my small office and the top end of the 3F and 5F should be very close or identical. I have a few other speakers that are locally available that I will also demo. The Harbeth SHL5+, Vandersteen Treo CT, and Vivid Kaya 45.. I have heard the last 2 but not in a dedicated demo. I doubt I am going to like them better than the Paradigm Persona but the store where I may buy my amp has the Treo and Kaya so I will give them another chance.

Now saying all of that I have spoken with a dealer in Canada who will get me the Yamaha NS5000 down to California where I live. I will not be able to audition the NS5000 until maybe late summer or fall 2019 and that's if I go up to Canada for a family visit. I would like to get some speakers before that.

I was wondering if anyone would offer me some suggestions as to what they would choose between the 2 speakers, the Yamaha NS5000 and Paradigm Persona 3F. I am not interested in other speakers in this question. I like the fact that these 2 speakers are the result of a lot of innovation by audio companies with some money for R&D.

I think the integration of the tweeter and mid in the Persona is fantastic with lot of audiophile goodness. Is the tweeter and mid on the Yamaha of equivalent quality? I am not asking so much about the bass because I will be suppressing some bass with the DSP and treatments. Another factor I need to consider is that this system will be played for about 8 hours a day via ROON | TIDAL and FM radio. Reviews are stating that the Yamaha is very nice speaker for relaxed listening. The Persona seems to be given the detailed tag. I liked the Pesona 5F a lot but I did not listen for 8 hours at the demo.

I have a thread going on on A'gon discussing this system purchase. Some posters there have been tremendously helpful in guiding me to my current vision. I thought I would throw this question to the WBF group because there maybe more folks here who have heard the Yamaha NS5000.
 

Audio_Karma

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Sep 24, 2012
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Now they are a new giant killer speaker on the market...the Tekton Design Encores, you should go and listen to these speakers too before buying the Yamaha speakers...
 

yyzSB

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May 14, 2017
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As I mentioned above I am only asking about the Yamaha and Paradigm. I know all about the Tektron's and how a lot of people like them over many expensive speakers. The Tektrons are not what I am interested in. i would love to spend less money but in this case I am not going to.
 

Al M.

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I am actively researching and demoing components for my office system. The room is small but I am trying to make it play bigger using room treatments and DSP. I am looking at a floor stander now and not a stand mount) because I think I may have made the room sound "bigger".

Wanting a "big" sound is not necessarily an argument for a floor stander. A stand mount will play just as "big" as a floor stander in any room smaller than a really large one. I get a big sound (also according to my audiophile friends with floor standers) in my medium sized room (24 x 12 x 8.5 feet), also acoustically treated, with my combo of Reference 3A Reflector monitors/JL Audio F112v2 subs.

In fact, in a small room floor standers can cause problems, such as lack of coherence and lack of image specificity if you have to sit too close, and bass overload.
 

rustplane

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Feb 26, 2016
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Persona's are interesting. I'm sure this is not true, but Paradigm might be considered more of a home theater speaker than a critical two-channel choice. My brother had Paradigm's for his home theater and he cares nothing about listening to stereo. Plus, Paradigm's are sold here in Atlanta at least, through a home theater dealer. Again, they sell some two-channel gear so I'm not saying the 3F's can't be good stereo speakers. The Paradigm cabinet construction is similar to B&W. The acoustic lens type grills make me wonder why the company found them necessary. I, too, was looking to audition the Magico A3's but the dealer said they don't have any, they don't know if or when they will and that Magico doesn't tell them anything. Makes me wonder either they're either backlogged or having problems. By now I would have thought they would have been reviewed. As far as Yamaha, it may be one of if not the most reviewed speakers in the world, just not in the USA because they're not sold here. I have almost 20 reviews plus additional threads and not one says anything but superlatives. Finally, consider this. What other loudspeaker manufacturer uses the same material for tweeter, mid-range and bass in the same speaker and combines this with a dome (not cone) mid-range.
 

yyzSB

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May 14, 2017
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rustplane, I think we spoke earlier by email. I did not see so many Yamaha reviews as you have. However, I will say that the reason the Yamaha sounds so intriguing to me is that the Paradigm Persona 5F demo was such a home-run to me. The BE tweeter and mid sound so good together. Better than the Magico A3. I was all set to by the Magico before room dimensions and the Persona came into the picture. The 3 drivers being of the same material and the material being lighter than BE may make me buy the Yamaha without an audition. That is why I am rambling here, to see if I convince myself to pull the trigger without an audition.

I do believe the Magico is backordered due to demand. Most people have a much higher valuation of Magico over the Paradigm, though if you heard the 2 speakers blindfolded I have a feeling I know which one most people would pick.

I am trying to get some family to do a demo on my behalf. They are a little busy now but my dad could do this in April when he gets back to Canada from his winter stay. The store that has the Yamaha also has the Persona on demo.

The Acoustic Lens has something to do with Phase.
 

rustplane

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2016
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Yes, we did correspond. I'm going through the same thing but I will pull the trigger on the Yamaha without listening, although I keep thinking they'll announce availability for the US any day because it simply makes no sense why the USA is literally the only country in the world where you can't buy them. I'm just waiting for some remodeling to get finished. The thing about beryllium is that Yamaha did it in the mid 1970's using vapor deposition, so today when a manufacturer says the cone uses pure beryllium I remember reading that Yamaha's technique deposited a thin layer of beryllium on a substrate. Not sure what the process is today, e.g. is it really only beryllium by itself or is it a coating? I'd check on that. Interesting about listening blindfolded. I had my first demo in a dark room a few years ago. Sounded great, but I hated looking at the speakers and I don't listen either blindfolded or in a completely dark room. There is some research I found that tried to verify what you see does affect what you hear, so beauty being in the eye of the beholder, both Yamaha and Paradigm and all speakers have their proponents and detractors. Very hard to judge value at this level as well, but I think the $10-20k range may be the sweet spot of value in speakers and I kind of determined that $15k is the "hot spot". That doesn't mean a $10k Persona or Magico can't beat a $15k Yamaha, and maybe the marginal cost isn't worth going to $20k, but maybe that means the marginal savings going down to $10k may not be worth it either if you've got the coin. I also think resale is not in issue, at least in the short run. I see Yamaha's and similarly list priced B&W's going for lower used prices. But in the very long run, based on the history of the Yamaha NS-1000 series, I'd bet the Yamaha's would hold their value better than the Paradigm's.
 

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